koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 13:58 |
 
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 14:00 |
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no, and thank god, the last thing we need is people playing amazons  |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 14:08 |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Oct 15, 2014 - 14:17 |
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There is actually a simple way to manipulate all aspects of a free environment.
If you look at how the market works: Rather than making products illegal, taxes are put on them to reduce demand.
Similarly box simply needs to favor and be biased towards unpopular teams in some way and they will become more popular. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 14:28 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | There is actually a simple way to manipulate all aspects of a free environment.
If you look at how the market works: Rather than making products illegal, taxes are put on them to reduce demand.
Similarly box simply needs to favor and be biased towards unpopular teams in some way and they will become more popular. |
The theory is good Wreckage, but you fall short of proposing an actual idea. Here is one - what about a new Blackbox Major which excludes clawpomb races? |
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BillBrasky
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 14:40 |
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Great post.
When the box was fresh, I activated all 24 races for many months.
However; I got jaded.
Your flings & gobs can only get mangled by so many dorfs before you want a chance to win.
Later we had waves of min/maxers.
That situation was fixed (thank goodness) by Christer's change to the scheduler.
Now, it's pretty good in the box.
I play a huge variety. I can't say I see too much of anything. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 14:40 |
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That won't make a difference.
What wreckage seems to be getting at is TS. The problem with Ts is it won't work in crp because of inducements.
There is nothing that can really be done to solve this perceived problem if people don't change them selves. The hypocrisy in these threads is astounding. I admire Bill, he enjoys cpomb and isn't afraid to admit it. Then you look at the teams of many of the people complaining and they are using mostly cpomb teams. If you don't like it then don't do it. |
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Last edited by Garion on Oct 15, 2014; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 14:42 |
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+1 to Bill. The box is pretty solid now. We just need more coaches playing in it. |
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King_Ghidra
Joined: Sep 14, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 15:05 |
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The problem is there are so many competing factors for what constitutes a fun and healthy environment, and many of them are opposed.
Some people believe fun is winning
some believe it is CR
some believe it is team growth and development
some believe it is enjoying their team's journey and story
some believe it is preparing for tournament play
some believe it is beating up others
some believe it is carnage and mayhem for all
some believe it is tactical play
some believe it is testing themselves against skilled opponents
some believe it is record breaking or chasing
some believe it is playing variety or grid filling
some believe it is other meta achievements or groups
some believe it is having a chat with their opponent
etc.
etc.
And we have open play environments in which people are pursuing several of these at any given time alongside those who may or may not be pursuing the same goals.
The fumbbl player base is a community only in the sense that we all play the same game. Everything else is self-defined or a result of site rules, and there is absolutely zero consensus i can see about what it should look like.
Adding gimmicks and meta groups obviously has some impact on participation and community, but Box has all the best ones and is still allegedly the most problematic environment. As long as you have the blind scheduler and people have the option to abuse it or play elsewhere, the box will never change. Equally as long as picking exists and benefits the pickers, Ranked will never change. Both environments contribute to and mirror the poor aspects of the other.
I've made my argument before on this subject, but I'll quickly restate:
- Separate open play divisions create a negatively divided community and skewed divisional play.
- Open play should take place independently of ranked competitive play.
Right now, you don't know what your opponent's goals are when you play them, and when they don't match it often leads to a lack of enjoyment. Something as fundamental as winning is often not the priority for many players, but they are in the same environment with many for whom it is prime. Ranked play should be about winning, not meta-games. It should mean competitive players playing against each other with competitive builds and the best of both being recognised. Everything else is Unranked play - it's your game and you can play it how and with who you want.
Virtually all arguments about game and site mechanics here are mired in the divergent assumptions of the goals of both. That situation is caused because we have two divisons that pretend or aspire to be all things to all people and only differ on a technical basis rather than a competitive one. I can't think of other online game systems that run anything like this. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Oct 15, 2014 - 15:07 |
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Garion, I must be reading a different thread - I haven't heard any complaints here but lots of constructive ideas and healthy debate. I love the Box - long live the Box! |
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CCSenor
Joined: Aug 15, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 15:22 |
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| Garion wrote: | | +1 to Bill. The box is pretty solid now. We just need more coaches playing in it. |
+ 1 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 15:24 |
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| Endzone wrote: | | Garion, I must be reading a different thread - I haven't heard any complaints here but lots of constructive ideas and healthy debate. I love the Box - long live the Box! |
im talking about these threads generally, we get about 1 week |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 15:38 |
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You see, my dear Watson..
..the elementary root of the problem, exists in our inability to refrain from just overdoing things, chap.
While I absolutely love the idea of Blackbox being an #AllorNothing or #TakeWhatYouGet, it loses it's appeal the moment you encounter someone who doesn't like a number of races.
#BeThatasitMayBe..
..if I am going into a Dark(Black) Room(Box), I am putting my little Fantasy lovin' hat on and I am bringing a group or Party(5+)to the fight. Who steps up, depends on whoever the scheduler feels like throwing on the pitch.
There are all kinds of things I could make up that would be fun for me but the fact is, the Blackbox was made to be random and people are cheating the system (Not to mention limiting the number of drawn teams) by only activating 1 or 2 (3 if they are feeling RISKY) well crafted machines.
It will come up where a coach can throw 5 Nurgle Pombing MASHING, Clawse/Regenerate Attrioning..you get the point, insert whatever 'Theme' <here>
But so what, they will be few enough that you will truly get Random:
The Natural Order which is balanced by an ever evolving interaction of Realities, perceived and projected.
~#Summary/#ColesNotes~
**Coaches must activate 5 teams, no matter how cheesy you want them to be** |
Last edited by gamelsetlmatch on Oct 15, 2014; edited 1 time in total |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 15:38 |
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| Garion wrote: | That won't make a difference.
What wreckage seems to be getting at is TS. |
That's not what I got from his post. I thought it was a weighting factor for teams being matched depending on how much a team has been played in the box. So if a rare team is matched it is given priority for a match over a commonly played team. The weighting factor could easily be a live number adjusted at each draw.
Assuming I understood him correctly I doubt it'd have much effect as it would only matter when there is an odd number of teams. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 15:42 |
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| Garion wrote: | | +1 to Bill. The box is pretty solid now. We just need more coaches playing in it. |
You currently only have one Box team and it only has 13 games. Are you going to quit again as soon as you lose a game?
Or when you pass 15-30?
I don't think that people are complaining about young teams.
The young team issue is that some people won't start a new teams unless they can imagine it eventually becoming an old team. |
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