ben_awesome
Joined: May 11, 2016
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 Posted:
Aug 15, 2023 - 23:37 |
 
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short pass = -1 on the passing attempt?
so the buffed 2+ passing on human throwers had absolutely no effect? |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 15, 2023 - 23:48 |
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What?
AG3, LRB6: short pass is a 4+ at +0.
Fumble, inaccurate x2, accurate x3.
RR misses: fumble x3, inaccurate x6, accurate x27.
PA2+, BB2020: short pass is a 2+ at -1.
Fumble, wildly inaccurate, accurate x4.
RR misses: fumble x2, wildly inaccurate x2, accurate x32.
Difference is a net +1 on the pass/fail odds but -1 on the "roll a net 2+" odds. So you are more likely to be accurate in the new rules but misses go wild. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor.
Last edited by JackassRampant on Aug 15, 2023; edited 1 time in total |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Aug 15, 2023 - 23:51 |
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yes, short pass is -1.
Human thrower successfully perform a quick pass(0-3 square) by rolling 2+ with the dice
Short pass (4-6 squares) requires to roll a 3+
And he has the pass reroll.
so the new rule are better (for the human thrower)
but whatch out for the wildly inaccurate pass!  |
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ben_awesome
Joined: May 11, 2016
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| Posted:
Aug 15, 2023 - 23:58 |
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I thought quick pass was +1, short was +0, long -1 and long bomb -2? |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 16, 2023 - 00:17 |
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| ben_awesome wrote: | | I thought quick pass was +1, short was +0, long -1 and long bomb -2? |
BB2020
quick pass -0
short pass -1
long pass -2
long bomb -3
What you described above is how it was BEFORE the PA stat came into being. Which made a human AG3 thrower this:
quick- 2+
short- 3+
long- 4+
bomb- 5+
Which is exactly the same, I believe, but w/ PA stat & honestly an easier to understand system IMO anyways. |
_________________
"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 16, 2023 - 04:35 |
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No, Nightbird.
AG3 was not a native 3+. It was a native 4+, but most AG rolls were at +1. So you'd dodge into the clear at +1 on a 4+, so a 3+, and your quick pass would be a 4+ with a +1 at 3+ as well. Short passes were at +0, so with AG3, you'd need a 4+. That's why AG6 existed (native 1+) and why it was not better than AG5 on a leap (unmodified roll but a 1 fails anyway). That's why LRB5+ Jump Up uses a +2 modifier on the AG roll, but 2020 it's only +1; the target is unchanged, but the math is different. That's also why AG1 was what it was, it was supposed to be the worst meaningful score, so 6+, but most AG rolls were at 5+, because of the bonus. Now it's just 5+ and the native bonus has been eliminated.
The reasoning behind this? Jervis felt that a default stat of 3 was appropriate for a World of Warhammer game, and agreed that 3+ was the most appropriate difficulty for most un-penalized rolls, but he thought that the default stat, for some dumb reason, should imply a 4+ roll, so he made the die roll (7-AG)+ but then applied a +1 bonus to most rolls, voila.
Stupid? Yes. But it happened. And it wasn't any worse than THAC0 or the AD&D saving throw tables. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Ridik700
Joined: Feb 11, 2023
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Aug 16, 2023 - 06:36 |
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yeah a baseline stat value of 3 with a corresponding 4+ success roll is pretty much the standard in warhammer/40k so it is what you would expect. The 3 corresponds to the number of successful outcomes on the dice (4, 5 or 6). |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 16, 2023 - 23:10 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | No, Nightbird. |
Yup, you are correct. The +1 always throws me off. That's why the new system is better 
AG3 Passing prior to the PA stat
quick-3+
short-4+
long- 5+
bomb- 6+ |
_________________
"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 18, 2023 - 06:30 |
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Yar, new Human/Orc throwers are mostly like old throwers with old Accurate, for about that price.
So adding new Accurate + Cannoneer is like adding old Strong Arm on a double.
If your thrower came across with PA 3+, they're just like a thrower who would never take Accurate in the old rules, blodge up and run it. Sadly, so are your elves, they are like an elf that would never take Strong Arm and pay double for Accurate, which is to say, elves should now run the ball, except High Elves, who are forced to pay extra for a bad long-passing game. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 18, 2023 - 12:02 |
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Elves used to run the ball even in old rulesets and the passing game was mostly an emergency solution. The difference is that in old rulesets any Elf was a good emergency thrower, now only their Throwers are good passers. DE can't even do that reliably because their Runner has a sucky PA 3+. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2023 - 06:56 |
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| tussock wrote: | | Yar, new Human/Orc throwers are mostly like old throwers with old Accurate, for about that price. |
Not really.
Orc Throwers are 3+, same as before, but now they're more likely to throw to bad places on short and longer passes, as opposed to fumbling like any decent Orc. They save 5k, but that's just compensation for Animosity.
Human Throwers are 2+, so like free Accurate except for the wild throws in lieu of all but one fumble permutation, but they also have +10k price. Skaven Throwers are the same, but with +MA, -AV, Mutation secondary (or Primary for UW), and +5k.
Then there are the elf passers, who are the same except the grotesquely nerfed DE Runner. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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