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The_Great_Gobbo



Joined: Aug 04, 2014
Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2024 - 12:18 Reply with quote Back to top
Knifes iz cheetin. We do cheetin. Gizza knives.
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 01:17 Reply with quote Back to top
What kind of "total dominance" are we talking about lol? Where do elves impose "total dominance" under BB2020 ruleset, could you show me such numbers please? Except ofc some tournaments that use Res, that's of no interest. The only total dominance I observe so far is total dominance of bash teams. Elves and hybrid teams are nowhere close to those.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 12:07 Reply with quote Back to top
SeriliKirico wrote:
What kind of "total dominance" are we talking about lol? Where do elves impose "total dominance" under BB2020 ruleset, could you show me such numbers please? Except ofc some tournaments that use Res, that's of no interest. The only total dominance I observe so far is total dominance of bash teams. Elves and hybrid teams are nowhere close to those.


No one is saying elves are totally dominant currently? Unless I've missed something?

Dark Elves on fumbbl are the most successful of the elf teams in this edition and are currently ranked 11th out of 29 races.
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats

and they're currently ranked 10th this year, with Pro Elf and Wood Elf right behind.
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2024

In terms of major tournaments. Last year saw Khemri, Dwarf, Underworld and Pro Elf win. So 2 bash 1 hybrid and 1 elf team.
https://fumbbl.com/note/ramchop/Major

I believe this year we have had 2 Vampire teams win majors so far and the current major running (GLT) has 2 Vampire vs dwarf semi finals.

The problem is seasons haven't been implemented yet which will curb some of these stupid high TV teams.

But yeah Orcs, Dwarves and Underworld were the biggest winners in this editions rules, which was called as soon as the rule book dropped. Amazons are just as broken as they've always been. And now Vampires are doing extremely well with their new roster because of their Ma8 runners.

However in this edition on TT things read differently, where seasons and low TV play is the main way of playing:


Code:
Race                   Win percentage   
Underworld Denizens   59.92 %   
Amazon                54.83 %   
Dark Elf              54.12 %   
Wood Elf              53.66 %   
High Elf              53.47 %   
Elf Union             52.36 %   
Old World Alliance    52.24 %   
Tomb Kings            52.20 %   
Shambling Undead      52.09 %   
Chaos Dwarf           51.42 %   
Skaven                51.24 %   
Vampire               51.17 %
Dwarf                 50.74 %
Necromantic Horror    50.70 %
Orc                   50.29 %
Slann                 50.16 %   
Lizardmen             49.79 %
Norse                 49.51 %   
Chaos Renegade        48.61 %
Khorne                48.26 %   
Human                 47.50 %   
Snotling              47.29 %
Imperial Nobility     47.06 %
Nurgle                44.70 %   
Halfling              44.49 %   
Chaos Chosen          44.02 %
Ogre                  43.63 %   
Black Orc             42.51 %   
Gnome                 42.06 %   
Goblin                38.86 %

https://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=statistics&year=2023

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Last edited by Garion on Jun 17, 2024; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 12:32 Reply with quote Back to top
Slann are still played?! They should have been phased out, they are not a BB2020 race.
As an aside, NAF is different.
In real BB, you know, you have to replace those expensive Elven positionals and skill them up again.
In NAF they resurrect from game to game. You will always have those 5 Blodgers on a DE team every game (I wonder where is the difference between Undead and other teams, by the way, when everybody can raise from the dead Very Happy).
No wonder they do better.
If we have to play low TV BB then it's better to rebalance all the rosters and tailor them specifically at low TV because, as we know, even low TV is not balanced.
Max 1 skill slot per player. Let's play this format, but then let's make it clear.
Currently players can get up to 6 skills, not just 1, and there are Casualty table with permanent injuries.
This doesn't suggest low TV forever.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jun 17, 2024; edited 5 times in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 12:37 Reply with quote Back to top
MattDakka wrote:
Slann are still played?! They should have been phased out, they are not a BB2020 race.
As an aside, NAF is different.
In real BB, you know, you have to replace those expensive Elven positionals and skill them up again.
In NAF they resurrect from game to game. You will always have those 5 Blodgers on a DE team every game.
No wonder they do better.


yeah Slann are still played.
Resurrection is different, but it's worth noting, as Seasons is trying to create a similar TV range of play to that seen in resurrection tournaments. Though it's not the same for obvious reasons....
Resurrection isn't perfect data, and fumbbl isn't either as it's missing seasons.

But in both Elves are doing fine and Underworld and zons are the 2 best races.

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Last edited by Garion on Jun 17, 2024; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 12:44 Reply with quote Back to top
Yes, that's true. I'm really looking forward to Season Re-Draft to see how the meta will change. No high hopes, but very curious.
Yesterday, when updating a roster, I spotted, on the new team page, costs like this:

100 + 20 + 0

the first was the player's cost, the second the skill's cost, the third one (my guess) the Re-Draft fee.
I checked the team page later but the third number disappeared.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 12:55 Reply with quote Back to top
yeah I believe there is some testing going on

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SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 20:13 Reply with quote Back to top
Garion wrote:


Code:
Race                   Win percentage   
Underworld Denizens   59.92 %   
Amazon                54.83 %   
Dark Elf              54.12 %   
Wood Elf              53.66 %   
High Elf              53.47 %   
Elf Union             52.36 %   
Old World Alliance    52.24 %   
Tomb Kings            52.20 %   
Shambling Undead      52.09 %   
Chaos Dwarf           51.42 %   
Skaven                51.24 %   
Vampire               51.17 %
Dwarf                 50.74 %
Necromantic Horror    50.70 %
Orc                   50.29 %
Slann                 50.16 %   
Lizardmen             49.79 %
Norse                 49.51 %   
Chaos Renegade        48.61 %
Khorne                48.26 %   
Human                 47.50 %   
Snotling              47.29 %
Imperial Nobility     47.06 %
Nurgle                44.70 %   
Halfling              44.49 %   
Chaos Chosen          44.02 %
Ogre                  43.63 %   
Black Orc             42.51 %   
Gnome                 42.06 %   
Goblin                38.86 %

https://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=statistics&year=2023


What are these numbers, where do they come from? Are they from some Res TT tournaments, because in such case they are of no interest to us and show little.

If it's really numbers from regular league play, then I wonder how were they collected. Do TT leagues just dump their game results on regular basis somewhere?
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2024 - 20:59 Reply with quote Back to top
SeriliKirico wrote:
Garion wrote:


Code:
Race                   Win percentage   
Underworld Denizens   59.92 %   
Amazon                54.83 %   
Dark Elf              54.12 %   
Wood Elf              53.66 %   
High Elf              53.47 %   
Elf Union             52.36 %   
Old World Alliance    52.24 %   
Tomb Kings            52.20 %   
Shambling Undead      52.09 %   
Chaos Dwarf           51.42 %   
Skaven                51.24 %   
Vampire               51.17 %
Dwarf                 50.74 %
Necromantic Horror    50.70 %
Orc                   50.29 %
Slann                 50.16 %   
Lizardmen             49.79 %
Norse                 49.51 %   
Chaos Renegade        48.61 %
Khorne                48.26 %   
Human                 47.50 %   
Snotling              47.29 %
Imperial Nobility     47.06 %
Nurgle                44.70 %   
Halfling              44.49 %   
Chaos Chosen          44.02 %
Ogre                  43.63 %   
Black Orc             42.51 %   
Gnome                 42.06 %   
Goblin                38.86 %

https://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=statistics&year=2023


What are these numbers, where do they come from? Are they from some Res TT tournaments, because in such case they are of no interest to us and show little.

If it's really numbers from regular league play, then I wonder how were they collected. Do TT leagues just dump their game results on regular basis somewhere?


They are from all the NAF res tournaments. so not much use. But generally the trends are similar between evironments, as you can see from the links provided. Res tourneys win percentages are generally a little closer together because of Comp packs and obviously the data is scewed to low tv play. due to the low number of skills you can allocate in comp packs etc..

I was just showing all the available data we have for this edition... Koadah has some too, if he is about. All the data sets are problematic for one reason or another.

Once seasons is introduced on fumbbl then we should get a better picture of things.

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