RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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 Posted:
Aug 08, 2024 - 15:12 |
 
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(if too long for you go at the end)
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There is a forum's topic where we discuss if make sense to make high visible some stat like Highest Coach Standings to motivate coaches to play more games.
In that thread I read one sentence
"Comp division moral"
and triggered my imagination as a failed writer
In this Community we record full of stats, records, win rate, divided by formats. But there is no records linked to "Coach Fair Play" or "sportsmanship"
I explain me better:
Playing Bloobow on FUMBBL is often invest one hour or more playing with an opponent with a chat who can be used to communicate with your opponent. Is an experience of one human being vs another human being, competitive, but still to be considered in the competitive sport. Is not a war where you have not only to win but destroy and humiliate your opponent right?
Recently I've spectated some games which made me upset where one coach at the end of a draw game, tough game, played vs a good opponent who make a very strong defence, told him
"eh.. i could easily won vs you 1-0 if my dices dit not suck".
Or another game of another expert coach playing Zons vs Bash team, at the end of the game the bash team suffered 2 CAS , Zons almost nothing and they won 1-0 scoring in the first half (durning the other's team offensive drive) by stoling ball thanks to a sudden timeout call, in a situation already critical for the bash team (with less players), and not able to score 2-0 in the second half because one player stabbed the ballkeeper in turn 6 (and in desperate situation almost equalized)
Then the winner in the chat in spite congratulate his opponent who, in a numerical inferiority, had almost equalised he came up with this final sentence that I founded obscene:
"ah I could won 2-0 if this player nuffled gifted with stab was not there "
Than you see the match report : bash team 50 blocks , 30 armour roll, 4 fouls , 1 CAS only , stab player stab 6 times zons breaking KO only one time (the ball keeper). Just a single moment of luck in a sea of despair!
Or you play with a player who moan and whine all the game because his dice suck and rules are crap and is a pain to see all these avalanches of complains in the chat... and maybe he won at the end with a stroke of luck and he neither tell you "ah sorry i was lucky" but tell "well is normal because i have CR 1780 you 1600 so natural i win easier than you"...
Anoher experience i had personally some time ago was a terrible match where everything was bad for me i think i was losing 3-0 or 4-0. I didn't take it out on the dice because when you lose 4-0 you've normally done something wrong (and very likely your opponent does everything perfect), it can't just be bad luck. I think I got a bit nervous when he called a timeout on 3-0 I told him like "what's the point?" and he said "shut up and play, just write useful things in chat"
or to make the full picture these coaches who don't say a word for the whole game, neither hello, good bye (which is like in a footbal match you enter in the pitch you don't even shake hands to your opponent).
There are some coaches who are so self-centred that they think they lose only because of the dice and not because of their own mistakes (or the merit of the opponent).
Other nice coaches who even if they play against a rookie who makes a thousand mistakes and then gets a quad skull have the class to console him by saying "you are unlucky" (instead of telling him: you lose because you play badly) or other nice suggestions.
Some play like if they have to destroy a machine. Some play respecting the human being in front of them.
Even some who consider "waste of their precious time playing 1 hour vs a veteran or rookie" (believe me i read this sentence in some forum in the past).
There is possibility to report most serious cases to admin , but if you play with a coach who is simply arrogant or cocky even if disappointing this is not illegal so you cannot report anything.
I think could be usefull finding a way to rank the more polite or "sportsmanship" coaches from the more offensives/rudes ones somehow;
PROPOSAL
For instance every coach at the end of a game could have a button close to the match report (just in the "edit report game" where usually game's players can write post-match comments) where he can rate his opponent with some "sportsmanship" or "fair play" points. Something like ranging from -5 to +5 where -5 is the worst coach from fair play you ever met and +5 is the most nice coach you met. And then have this record summed up and ytd results highlighted close to coach page (top right in the coach's records)
And - if we want to add more 'spice' - maybe periodically grant to the best coach some more rating points and deduct rating points to the worst coach (but this can be too much maybe).
If we want to do something wider, ideally, giving a way also to "specs" to vote players fairplay at the end of a game they spectated. But honestly i don't have any idea how technically can be implemented as spectating a game is not tracked anyway (and we should avoid some specs just enter a game vote prejudicially because they dislike someone a priori).
This could be a motivation to improve fair play in the community (if we think make sense).
Have more fair play not sure if can boost more games but maybe can gather more people in this community.
What do you think make sense?
TL/DR
I would like to have a sort of "fair play" or "sportmanship" way to evaluate/rank coaches.
And have this "fairplay" ranking listed in coach personal page.
optional: give periodical rewards to those coaches in top of fairplay standing/ranking and inflict penalties on those at the bottom of the rankings
Can specs (or selected people) rate other player's fairplay? |
_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2024 - 15:25 |
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So you can leave feedback stars on opponent after a game? Urggghh no
If i see that my review score has dropped after a game, i know it who it was? so i could send them a message to ask why? which is basically harassment
If i foul opponent players to prevent them potentially 1turn scoring at the end of the game, that's sensible gameplay. But i would be then fearful they're going to give me a bad review?
Specs doing it is even worse |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Aug 08, 2024 - 15:33 |
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You pose 2 problems correct? coaching playstyle, and chat style
You're never going to have any success in influencing either.
Coaching style, people have all kinds of reasons for playing this game. some its tryhard to win, some its to mess about for the lols, some its to bash opponent team
You can't say that any person's reason is any more valid than any others. the game is how it is, it allows different stuff to happen, and you can't regulate this
Whining in chat is a negative thing.... but, chat is unregulated so you're not gonna change anything there either
The only way to solve that is, moderated chat where all messages have to be approved by a person (lol)
Or no chat, and you can only communicate by sending emoji / a selection of pre-defined phrases / something similar |
Last edited by Sp00keh on Aug 08, 2024; edited 1 time in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2024 - 15:35 |
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I'm also against it. When we rate things like Uber drivers, even though it's a raring out of 5 or 10, in reality the rating is either perfect, or 0. 4/5 is intended to mean 'really good, but not perfect', but instead it has come to mean 'what the hell did you screw up that you aren't perfect?'
Unfortunately, that's a fairly natural human bias, and unless we can come up with a way to overcome it, I don't think a rating system of that nature is a good idea. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2024 - 15:36 |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Aug 08, 2024 - 15:58 |
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I intend fairplay the way the coach play and interact vs his opponent in terms of certain sporting rules that we can define (as a Community or if we dont agree Stuff/Commissionners can define)
Arrogant and rude chat is clerly not a nice behaviour. Frequent disconnections without explanations... Frequent concessions... repetite chat whining/moaning/critics...
I see my proposals maybe too naif and i agree with most of you several things can be improved/changed.
-Specs i agree with you could be a mess.
In alternative: a subset of selected coaches chosen by admins/staff?. But i see this very complicated to be implemented and mantained 
-In term of fairplay points to avoid personals debate with your opponent: The counter can be updated every 10-20 games so as to mask who give you a "bad" fairplay point.
-We can keep-out the rating point penalization
-I agree with Sp00keh that some coach don't understand the the usefulness of the foul that can have a tactical value: but here the chat can help you. In case you play with a unexperienced coach you can explain : sorry i must foul you see you can make 1TTD.
At least let's agree on the principle:
Let's imaging to find an an impartial method of assessing players' fairplay (with a clear definition of fairplay rules which can be defined by admin, or staff): would be usefull? |
_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Aug 08, 2024 - 16:05 |
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When I ran OTB leagues, I would have each of the players send me a text of who they thought the best sportsman was out of the season, (couldn't vote for yourself) and the winner got a free paint job on a full team worth a decent chunk of money.
I don't think the incentive necessarily encouraged people to be nicer but it was a good feeling saying thanks to the guy that made the league more fun.
What I observed is that the guy that won the most didn't get many votes even though I found him to be a great sport. Gracious in his one defeat and never rubbing it in when he won.
I would be concerned that this rating system would get abused by people that are mad at the dice and unfairly link that to the coach and give a bad rating just because they had a bad experience in the game.
I think your idea is great if everyone could be adults, but we would solve most of the world's problems if everyone would be adults too. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Aug 08, 2024 - 17:01 |
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Your last point on imagining an impartial set of rules is the crux. The site HAS done this, and defined it as what you can report on.
They haven't allowed you to report on more because, there isn't universal agreement. |
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Frost_
Joined: Oct 11, 2022
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Aug 08, 2024 - 17:17 |
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Should you lose or gain sportsmanship points for fouling on T16? |
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Endrophil
Joined: Nov 16, 2015
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Aug 08, 2024 - 17:24 |
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Gain of course, Fans love to see fouls! |
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kozak
Joined: Feb 25, 2017
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Aug 08, 2024 - 17:59 |
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As an ancient blood bowl player told me:
No foul, no win! |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2024 - 18:45 |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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Aug 08, 2024 - 23:13 |
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you don't change people, you change your reactions. |
_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2024 - 09:19 |
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| awambawamb wrote: | | you don't change people, you change your reactions. |
Yes of course we can react with indifference to those legendary BoneHeads Champion's Virility who writes pearls of wisdom inside the game chat or forum rooms...
But's it's not much fun
 |
_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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kozak
Joined: Feb 25, 2017
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2024 - 10:04 |
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| RDaneel wrote: |
Yes of course we can react with indifference to those legendary BoneHeads Champion's Virility who writes pearls of wisdom inside the game chat or forum rooms...
But's it's not much fun
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That's cute. |
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