MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Sep 03, 2024 - 18:07 |
 
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In old rulesets every Elf was a good emergency thrower, being able to throw a Long Bomb on a 5+ and a Long Pass on a 4+. Now the Linemen and the Blitzers (with the exception of EU Blitzers, with PA 3+) don't pass as well. The Catchers are bad at passing too.
PA 4+ is like throwing with AG 2 in BB2016 and CRP. That means Long Passes and Long Bombs on a 6+. Also, in old rulesets Elves could have punted without the risk of Wildly Inaccurate.
In NAF tournaments they resurrect from game to game, in perpetual environment they don't and they are expensive to replace. In NAF tournaments they don't face as often as in perpetual environment Tackle and MB.
They are so good that I rarely find them in the Box.
They pay the Agility like in the past, but now the Agility is not as good as it was in the past, because it was used to work out passes.
This is why they should be a little bit cheaper, something like 5k discount. Or keep them at the same price but add +1 PA to them all. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Sep 03, 2024 - 18:54 |
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Eh, I disagree. I think they were undercosted before (by about 5k for high/dark/wood elf lineelves), and now I'm grudgingly being forced to accept they might actually be right now.
Other teams still have major problems, like orcs being undercosted, zons and dwarves having too many skills off the bat, etc, but that doesn't make elves bad, that makes other tier <1 teams too good. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 03, 2024 - 18:59 |
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Not bad, but they don't have the blanket passing proficiency they should have.
Anyway, play hundreds of games in the Box with Elves and you will find that they are not good.
Not unplayable, but not as good as they should be.
Since they can't pass reliably enough, I'd like to remove the PA stat from all the Elves but the Throwers (and DE Runner) and make them cheaper.
At least I could have a long bench.
With PA 4+ or PA 5+ you are not going to pass most of times.
Either the PA is good enough for its cost or it's better not to have it at all and have cheaper players. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Sep 03, 2024 - 20:15 |
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As I said they arent free win anymore, you actually have to play bloodbowl.
Tho I do think that is strange to you.
But you can still do your thing, run away and roll dice for that oneturn, even better on this ruleset than before. |
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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 03, 2024 - 20:49 |
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This ruleset is supposed to have Season Re-Draft enabled. With Season Re-Draft it's harder to keep a natural one turner. Consider that.
We have not played yet BB2020 for real so far. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Sep 03, 2024 - 20:51 |
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you cant have natural oneturner in 2020 as move is capped on 9. |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 03, 2024 - 20:56 |
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Ok, I will be more accurate: with Season Re-Draft it's harder to keep a MA 9, Side Step, Sprint player with stat boosts, thus making the 1TTD harder even with multi rr. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Sep 03, 2024 - 21:09 |
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lul |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 03, 2024 - 21:14 |
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Let's make it simpler: Elves should be better at passing, the current PA is too low compared to the supposed passing ability they should have according to lore.
They can be played and are decent even with their lower-than-expected PA (because most games are based on running with the ball), but this doesn't mean that their rosters are ok. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Sep 03, 2024 - 21:43 |
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elven throwers should be cheaper I agree, but not all elves should pass.
All elves passing was just bad design and favoured bad play. Same with oneturning, completely just noskill dice rolling that you like. |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 03, 2024 - 22:18 |
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To be honest, multi rr favours bad play (of any kind, not just the Elven one) way more than the old Elven passing of previous editions.
I'd like to have 1 rr per turn again but improve the Elven passing.
About the no skill dice rolling: well, if oneturning is no skill (although I made some 1TTDs with some cunning chainpushes, not always just by rolling dice), stalling for 8 turns with a bash team is not that skilled either and it's based on rolling 2d block dice, remove opponent players, mark the remaining ones, rinse & repeat. And on top of this many bash teams have a MA 8 ball carrier too.
One turning is just the logical answer to 8 turns of stalling, since defence is most of times futile and leads to a harder-to-play offensive drive on 2nd Half. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %04, %2024 - %16:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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Sep 03, 2024 - 22:34 |
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I like the multiple RR per turn. Yes it allows sloppy play in early turns, but it also punishes sloppy play by burning through those RR at a breakneck pace. What it really does is prevent excessive stalling by making you unsafe in more situations. Multiple RR allows for more dramatic plays to happen and those plays are fun. Maybe not fun for your highly refined play style, but fun for a board game. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Sep 03, 2024 - 23:20 |
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Just to make an example: I try to play by minimizing the rushes I do with careful positioning (not implying I manage to do that in each and every game but that's my aim and approach).
It happens quite often that my opponents, to recover from their bad players' positioning and to catch up and keep the pace with my faster players, start spamming rushes (typically bash teams with slow or average MA players).
This forces me to spam rushes as well and, considering the high variance involved in such a small sample of dice rolls, it's not uncommon that I fail a rush I didn't want to risk just because my opponent spammed rushes and got lucky.
In other words, the possibility of using more than 1 rr per turn pushes the games towards dice rolling rather than trying to position well your players (which requires some coach's skill), because you know that you can spam rushes if required. This removes a component of strategy and the skill of predicting and guessing the opponent's next moves.
Since bash teams don't need to use rrs as often as agile teams (because their most common action, 2d blocking, is more reliable than 1d dodging) it tends to spare some rrs and use them to force the agile teams to burn theirs due to rush spamming and extra dodges (because the rush spamming allowed to mark more agile players).
Another example: this edition has nerfed passing but multi rr helps bash teams to move the ball more easily than before with rush spamming and hand offs.
Nerfing pass could have been ok, but there was no reason to encourage further, with multi rr, the running game, which was and is the most common strategy.
Bash teams are already good and boring enough without helping their running game.
Last but not least: no, multi rr doesn't stop excessive stalling.
When you are outnumbered with Elves you can use all the rrs you want, but a bash team safely stalling won't be discouraged by the multi rr.
To make another example: in old ruleset I could try a cage dive with Leap and a Wrackle player (Elf or Slann) to sack the ball carrier with a -2d blitz. Then the ball could have been punted away.
With this passing system a punt can easily become a Wildly Inaccurate pass.
I had more success attacking cages with old rulesets than now, because with 1 rr per turn and better punts a bash team could have not scored anymore, in case of sack.
With multi rr it's better to save all my rrs for the 1TTD (and this is another reason to have 1 rr per turn again).
If I know that I can use more than 1 rr per turn, it's better to save them all for trying a gamechanging action on turn 8 or 16, rather than wasting them trying to sack a ball carrier inside a cage. |
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NiozeH
Joined: Mar 09, 2021
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Sep 04, 2024 - 01:38 |
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Imho all line elf should be 5k cheaper so you can fit more RR in starting rosters. Passing is fine now. Thrower was unnecessary, now is mandatory. A lot of games in previous edition were a bullshit long bomb fiesta, where bad positioning and bad decisions were graced by a long bomb from a lineelf. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Sep 04, 2024 - 10:58 |
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-Multi reroll is good and is wrong to say that favor bad play.
-Elf are good if you are able to use.
-Several coaches use to play them in Box. In the Trophy they are quite successful
-Elf should have one good thrower and stop: have any elf as an emergency thrower was wrong; so happy GW corrected.
-Play hundreds of games with the same team of elves is practiced by a subset few coaches and don't have any statistical meaning. |
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