Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:28 |
 
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Yes, but you will also have plenty of random skills on Elven linemen, which means you could squeeze in even more in the 1227.5 |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:29 |
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We are running a private league with redraft and we are going into the tenth season now.
The 1350 cap works just fine, a variety of teams won the league during these seasons.
Usually the final game is between 1600-1650 tv teams. Which is a nice growth trend before going back to 1350. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:32 |
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The useful G skills for Elven Linemen are a subset. Block, Wrestle, Kick (one), Dirty Player, Tackle (but only Block and Wrestle give blocking reliability and protection).
It's hard to get Block or Wrestle randomly. It's just 1/6.
Even if you get them, Elves are squishy and can die/get crippled easily.
You can't expect to have a decent number of Block/Wrestle skill only by rolling random G skills. |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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Jan 26, 2025 - 21:10 |
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You mention 5 skills there, that's almost 50% chance of getting a useful random skill. Certainly you cannot expect block or wrestle, but you can reasonably expect a few cheap, useful skills. |
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Chivite
Joined: Sep 04, 2017
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Jan 27, 2025 - 01:59 |
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surely this is just trolling, right? like....
if not, shouldnt the main reply be either:
"Who knows? surely we first need time to test changes all around and collect data before changes are even suggested, never mind made"
or
"womp womp" |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 27, 2025 - 02:13 |
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| Joost wrote: | | You mention 5 skills there, that's almost 50% chance of getting a useful random skill. Certainly you cannot expect block or wrestle, but you can reasonably expect a few cheap, useful skills. |
The G skills I really want on my Elven Linemen are Block/Wrestle, so 1/6.
Kick is useful, but 2 or more are redundant.
Dirty Player is nice, but without a bench (and Sneaky Git) fouling can be counterproductive.
Tackle is useful too, but doesn't remove the 1/9 failure chance when blocking nor it offers protection when blocked.
Otherwise the risk of burning rrs for blocks gets too high and Elves are quite a risk-based team, they need the rrs for the 1 die action. |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Jan 27, 2025 - 02:32 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Joost wrote: | | You mention 5 skills there, that's almost 50% chance of getting a useful random skill. Certainly you cannot expect block or wrestle, but you can reasonably expect a few cheap, useful skills. |
The G skills I really want on my Elven Linemen are Block/Wrestle, so 1/6.
Kick is useful, but 2 or more are redundant.
Dirty Player is nice, but without a bench (and Sneaky Git) fouling can be counterproductive.
Tackle is useful too, but doesn't remove the 1/9 failure chance when blocking nor it offers protection when blocked.
Otherwise the risk of burning rrs for blocks gets too high and Elves are quite a risk-based team, they need the rrs for the 1 die action. |
And what does 50k more do? It allows you to buy one more skill and an agent fee with 10k left over. Its hardly gamechanging.
And then if the cap is 1.4m you or others would still say "but i had to sack a good player... "
I have been running a TT league for 5 seasons and I think the system is fantastic. Elves do ok but what you're asking for is just increasing the skills and hence variance. |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Jan 27, 2025 - 03:37 |
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I'm gonna side a bit with Dakka on this one. Because of the cost of elf positionals, they often don't get to their full list until 1100+. Which significantly impacts their redraft. Just did a bunch of redraft and my elf lists were mostly missing 1 or 2 positionsals with about 10 skills. My human list has everything but the ogre, an extra RR and 17 skills.
Elves are gonna be pushed to "one OTTD threat and a bunch of near rookies" I think. I dont know if adding more TV is the answer or (perish the thought) decreasing the cost of some of the elf positionals. Oh well. Rats it is! |
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MercutioT
Joined: Mar 19, 2015
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Jan 27, 2025 - 04:24 |
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I'm not shedding a tear over Elves being expensive. Elves are easy mode: 2+ everything, Block on the starting roster, and can reliably get 3+ skills before their first redraft. And there's no rule that, like, every Wood Elf team deserves to have a full roster of positionals at every moment; maybe they'll need to save up to buy a Tree after each redraft — not really a big deal. Regardless, most teams are being hit much, much harder than Elves; I expect lizardmen and nurgle will pretty much disappear entirely.
However, I do think that the redraft rules are definitely not perfect. An easy move in the right direction would be to allow players without their first level up to ignore Agent fees. I can imagine the pain of having to fire a buncha 4SPP Ulfs and Saurus. Seems really unfun. And a big guy might spend an entire season building up 10SPP in pursuit of Block at 12. Should we really be penalizing slow-to-skill players this much? (Surely Trolls are too stupid to hire Agents, anyway, no?!) Paying 20k extra per not-quite-skilled Golem or Khorne Warrior for 0 tangible team value does not make Blood Bowl more fun or balanced. |
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Rawlf
Joined: Jul 15, 2007
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Jan 27, 2025 - 08:44 |
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Useless discussion imo. Elves are middle of the road teams in this ruleset. It has to be assumed GW wanted them like that. Redraft doesnt change anything about it, moving the cap by 50k would not even be noticed. Like it or dislike it, it is what it is. |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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Jan 27, 2025 - 09:13 |
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MercutioT has a good point about slow to skill players though. Removing agent fees from rookie players would be an improvement to the system for me. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Jan 27, 2025 - 09:24 |
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I think Christer implemented the redraft at the best he could following the manual rules at the best.
I m totally in favour of the current Agent’s fee expense and how is implemented and I hope this will be NOT changed/amended because one single coach complain.
Also cap 1350 is perfect in my opinion. So to be crystal clear :I strongly disagree with Dakka’s proposal to increase to 1400 tv cap.
There were plenty of discussion on discord and also Christer clearly published in his blog how redraft cap would have worked and most of coach agreed/were happy on this.
What I have noticed is that there are still some space of interpretations of the user manual rules about budget and treasury management (see separate discussions in Fumbbl/Discord/General) and Christer told that we hope in a GW FAQ (even if unlikely they will FAQ the redraft rules of BB2020 as the new BB release coming)
In case someone thinks there is “bug” in the redraft of his team it is possible to send message to Christer on Discord/General
As usual he will fix this in amazing speed. But a part this my expectation is that redraft will stay as it is at least for this season. Then maybe the next who know.
Thank you Christer for this major achievement ! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 27, 2025 - 09:47 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | We are running a private league with redraft and we are going into the tenth season now.
The 1350 cap works just fine, a variety of teams won the league during these seasons.
Usually the final game is between 1600-1650 tv teams. Which is a nice growth trend before going back to 1350. |
@matt this ^ is exactly the point of seasons/redraft.... elves are fine. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Jan 27, 2025 - 09:49 |
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If you remove agent fees from rookies, you can try to bank as many high spp players before redraft and then skill them after first game.
Ofcourse when one hits 18 he has to skill, but not many linos/etc do that unintentionally. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 27, 2025 - 09:53 |
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That said... I prefer a higher cap as it allows more team variation in my league. which is why its 1600 in SL. But for the competitive division I think keeping it lower makes more sense... it means getting games is easier and keeps majors more competitive. Instead of having ridiculous pimped teams with 2 stat freaks... which really shouldn't be possible |
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