Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Feb 05, 2025 - 10:57 |
 
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For me, randoms without redraft had 3 possible uses:
First option was random generals on linemen
Linemen that are already decent, like norse / amazon / orc / etc,
Roll random General when they get to 3 or 4 spp, and cycle the bad ones
Looking for Block, Wrestle, 1x DirtyPlayer, 1x Kick for example, and firing the rest
Only roll when you've got gold to allow instantly replacing them, and simply saving the spp until you do
Over time this means you end up with handful of those good skills at a discount and it makes your team more efficient than your rivals, which gives you an advantage
You have to be pretty ruthless about not taking the marginal ones, Pro and Tackle are a 'maybe' and the rest aren't worth it
These linemen will then generally sit on 1x skill and not develop further. You don't want to spoil them with a second random being bad, and they're already at their most efficient. So don't skill them, if they get to 20spp they'll be forced to skill and you can just then take +AV for 10k
I'll probably continue doing this in redraft
It just means these lucky draws will stick around on the team for a lot less time, as you probably won't pay agency fees on them for very long - only positional players justify long term investment now
So you're unlikely to have more than 1 or 2 at a time
Second option was first skill on positionals
The other use is on positionals, or players you're planning to build with multiple skills from the same table
Dwarf Blockers, Orc Blitzers etc already have Block and STR access, and do well with Guard MightyBlow StandFirm
So if you roll Strength randoms, get one of those skills for half price, you can then continue with the development but have saved yourself another 10k
This type of development is great, but these players often skill slowly, so it really slows down the development of the whole team if you're cycling expensive positionals looking for marginal savings
I can't see this type of process surviving in a redraft environment, it's too slow
The final option was Agility on supercarrier, a variation of the above
For Orc Blitzer and Dwarf Runner etc as supercarrier, they're gonna want +MA +MA and hopefully +AG, and then Dodge Sidestep as secondaries. But this makes them very expensive
So one option is to get to 6 SPP and roll on the Agility table first
If they get Dodge or Sidestep, great! its saving 20k. then you continue as normal
If it was an Orc Blitzer and they got Defensive, also great! this helps win guard-wars, and you train up someone else as a carrier
For all the other skills, sadly you have to cycle them.
This is a very slow process, it's even slower than the other options
With redraft:
So instead, I think it'll change to something like: Before redrafting if you've got players on 3-4 SPP, you might as well roll randoms with them and if it's a good one, keep the player if you can afford to
If it's a bad one, keep till the end of the season, and then redraft effectively lets you cycle them for free anyway
There's probably some situations where the budget is going to be tight, and a positional gets to 6spp
You can then choose to take a primary, but maybe wouldn't keep them. So, might as well gamble on a secondary, and reshuffle the redraft to accommodate |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:15 |
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I've redrafted all my legacy teams, but not yet played a full season with redraft in mind
I can see there's possibility of different nature of building, though
If you're trying to pump for a major tournament at the end of the season, it probably looks different than business-as-normal
You'll have a season, then a redraft, then another season, then enter tourney at the end of that
So the redraft before, you probably want to cut drastically, rerolls and apoth, in order to try and carry as much skillups as you can into the final building season
Whereas a business-as-normal redraft, you'll want to not cut so hard as it'll mean difficult games early in the season
For entering a tourney, you want to be BIG. The overdog generally does better
The more you waste on agency fees, the lower your intial TV is at the start
But, you'll earn plenty over the season. 15 x 70k = 1050k
So something like:
Season 1, build a carrier, ignore everyone else
Redraft, keep the carrier, pay 20k fees
Season 2, continue developing the carrier, develop 4 supporting players from a fresh start
Redraft, keep the carrier and the 4 support players. You're paying 120k agency fees here so TV will come out 1230k ish
End of season 3, enter the tournament
The carrier has played 45 games
The support players have played 30 games
Rest of team has played 15 games
The team is probably 1700-1800?
If you push this for another season, it means the redraft at the end of season 3 costs you 220k, so your TV is more like 1600-1700?
You maybe can't afford to keep the carrier and all 4 of the support players, so this is a weaker position
The other obvious thing is you can carry unspent SPP over for no cost. But spending it before redraft, you have to pay more to re-hire that player
So you could have a season where you mostly hoard spp... depends on how many players you're trying to carry over |
Last edited by Sp00keh on Feb 05, 2025; edited 3 times in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:17 |
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It's a nice read, but please, may you add some context? Which races? Otherwise it's a bit vague.
For example, on my Dwarf Blockers I'm not going to randomise S skills early in the Season, while I could do it at Season's End and keep the ones who rolled either Guard or Mighty Blow.
On my Tomb King Skeletons I'm going to randomise G skills as soon as possible (probably keeping them at 1 skill each, without risking to randomise a second bad G skill bloating them).
It's important to talk specifically about races, because the building strategies are different. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Feb 05, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:26 |
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I'm not gonna list examples for every race, because I don't play every race also I can't be bothered
I was vague yes, tried giving examples as guidelines to then apply yourself, and you seem to have found your answer, so.. job done |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:34 |
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Not for each race, just for the ones you actually play. I don't think I asked for the Moon.
Also, I stated in my first post to be specific.
Example: I play my Vampires and I do this: ...
I play my Orcs and I do this: ...
Something like that.  |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:36 |
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I was replying to Zlefin's post, about 'viability of random skills'
I think the usage of randoms has changed now with redraft, hence what I posted |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:43 |
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Ah yes, I read it now (I was referring to the post of yours: "For me, randoms without redraft had 3 possible uses:")
The playoff aspect you mentioned in the subsequent post of yours ("I've redrafted all my legacy teams, but not yet played a full season with redraft in mind etc.") is a thing to consider as well.
For example, I play without playoff in my mind, but of course if you want to join a tournament the building strategy might be different. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 05, 2025 - 12:47 |
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To get into the original topic a bit more then,
I think some team development types are dead now:
- Dwarves where everyone has Guard, you can't redraft them all, and you can't skill them all in a single season
- Saurus and Black Orcs where you have 6 of them plus a big guy that are all need skills but are slow, plus a carrier. These really get hammered
- Vamps specifically are probably OK because they are elite + chaff anyway. They won't retain any thralls after the first redraft, and will stick with their 4-5 skilled vamps for as long as they can
Getting free heals on Niggles is nice for them
It's probably fatal for the Vargheist, too expensive to retain, and it's too much of a project to get them to Block + Mighty Blow, and they're not good enough as rookies
The vamp positionals probably can't have as many stats now as that takes a bit too long
I'm undecided if it encourages Leader on a Thrower or not
They won't be able to carry 4+ RR through redraft, will need to cut those and gradually replace in the early games. So maybe taking Pro is more likely now
- All-linemen-with-random-skills teams, probably also dead. Or need change. Simply you can't redraft them all, don't have enough time to cycle bad randoms and keep the good ones and grow them to a decent level
- Orcs probably continue to be strong, but they do suffer the 'saurus problem' a bit with their big uns. 4 Big Uns and 4 blitzers is just too many to retain
This also means Thrower gets even less popular - there's no way you can retain 9x positionals
- Undead probably gain ground a bit on Orcs because they can concentrate on the Mummies as long term projects
- Necro probably lose ground as they also have too many positionals |
Last edited by Sp00keh on Feb 05, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 05, 2025 - 13:08 |
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Leader on Thrower/Runner player type: is it still worth it now? Or is it better to play with the rrs?
If you want to get as soon as possible the stats/core skills it could be better to skip it at all.
For example, HE Thrower: I can take Leader on him to save 30 TV (with 3 team rrs), but when Season is over I will have to re-hire him (or play some games in the next Season with 3 rrs and very few skills). With Leader + fee his cost is 140k, very expensive for the quite situational use. Maybe it's better to just play HE with 4 rrs, which are not affected by agency fees and can't die in a game.
In case of Tomb Kings, saving 50 TV with Leader is too good, instead. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 05, 2025 - 13:20 |
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Probably the more likely question is, say you play 2 seasons and then redraft
You have skilled up blitzers and catchers etc to pay agency fees for
Is the thrower with leader more important to retain than them?
If you were going to redraft the thrower anyway (like Vamps would) then having Leader on him will help keep cost down because you can cut a reroll, and then buy it later
If you weren't going to redraft the thrower anyway, then his Leader isn't enough to take the place of a skilled up Catcher |
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