MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 20:19 |
 
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| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
I mean it's just called that because the thing you actually wrote, second 'edition' doesn't make sense when there was already a second edition. |
Sorry, I wanted to write "Blood Bowl Second Season".
I wrote "Edition" instead of "Season", doh! 
| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
You mean in CR? Wouldn't you feel more of an accomplishment if you did that playing a less silly version of BB than the one you've been playing for, it seems, years? |
I find more silly playing a team lacking some core skills.
Not saying that I want to play with Legend players, but I want the core skills on the positionals. When I fail a 3+ pick up just because I lack Sure Hands I find the experience super silly.
| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
Nobody is taking the CR of teams played like that seriously so it seems like a pointless goal. |
Now the teams have been trimmed by the Season Re-Draft, so the freak ball carriers will be gone. The only left seem Amazon and Norse ones, hence my thread.
| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
It's not your fault, but you 'are' limiting your pool of opponents by mostly spinning season 2+ (or before this change, 15+ game) teams.
You've played 1 dude 200 times and you're spinning in peak hours  |
I can reverse that like this: actually, it's the people playing in the Trophy limiting my pool of opponents, not I. I bear this because it's a free site and it has to be taken as it is.
About CR: well, I didn't make the formula. I just check the rankings and I try to be top 1 in the Box with the races I play. When I achieve top 1 with a race I stop playing it until it drops in the rankings.
If you think it's not meaningful, feel free to suggest how to improve it. It's not my own made CR system.
I thought it was official enough to be meaningful.
If for you CR is not meaningful, ok, but it gives me a goal to pursue. That's enough for me.
In the end, everything can be meaningful or meaningless. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 20:32 |
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| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
Absolutely, and if he was just playing for fun I wouldn't even have commented.
But he seems to be playing something that only he thinks is a contest, and taking it seriously enough to be suggesting rules changes and arguing strongly about it
Figured I'd try and promote the best competition on the site, never know! |
Some people just don't want to keep starting new teams. So, they're unlikely to see it as "best". Interesting though it is. |
_________________
NO seasons! - Old style skill progression! - Secret League - All Stars 20th Anniversary Bowl - 12th March! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 20:36 |
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Yes, another reason, I forgot, is: I hate making new teams over and over again.
I accept to make a new team if a new edition is released and the roster changes or I can't use my old teams due to that, but I consider making new teams an evil to avoid.
I like to have max 1 team per race and play it without making a new one.
The Season Re-Draft has drastically narrowed down the playable teams, but amen.
Competition aside, the TV 1000 dimension is super boring to me.
I start to have fun around TV 1300. I can play at lower TV, but it's a bit like having bread and water for lunch.
It keeps you alive and it's better than no food, but it's not the ideal lunch you'd like to eat.  |
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TheArtemisBlack
Joined: Aug 28, 2022
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 20:54 |
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| koadah wrote: | | TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
Absolutely, and if he was just playing for fun I wouldn't even have commented.
But he seems to be playing something that only he thinks is a contest, and taking it seriously enough to be suggesting rules changes and arguing strongly about it
Figured I'd try and promote the best competition on the site, never know! |
Some people just don't want to keep starting new teams. So, they're unlikely to see it as "best". Interesting though it is. |
Yeah, I was just using 'best' as shorthand. It's the most competitive format on Fumbbl (or anywhere really).
For me, who only plays competitive BB, that makes it the best.
Obviously if you have other goals, then that wouldn't be the case. |
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TheArtemisBlack
Joined: Aug 28, 2022
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 20:59 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Yes, another reason, I forgot, is: I hate making new teams over and over again.
I accept to make a new team if a new edition is released and the roster changes or I can't use my old teams due to that, but I consider making new teams an evil to avoid.
I like to have max 1 team per race and play it without making a new one.
The Season Re-Draft has drastically narrowed down the playable teams, but amen.
Competition aside, the TV 1000 dimension is super boring to me.
I start to have fun around TV 1300. |
Rookie teams 'are' too RNG reliant, but I can't help but notice that the version of '1300 BB' you've been playing is not the same version that basically anyone else means when they say 'Good BB starts at 1300'
All of your teams before Redraft was introduced look exactly like the teams you are currently complaining about. You do see that right?
They're all just teams that have take advantage of the infinite games system and built super ball carriers but stayed low TV to get games etc.
If you don't care about gaming the system, which it seems you haven't for years, just game the redraft system too?
It doesn't seem to bother you that nobody but you knows who has the 'top box Undead CR rating' so just keep doing the same thing? Job done |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 21:00 |
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Well, to be honest, NAF format without progression and with resurrection could be competitive too, maybe evem more than the BBT, if you are interested in playing at low TV with very few skills. The randomness of casualties affecting the next game is removed and there are no freaks, spam of cheap random skills etc.
There would not even be the need to make new teams, like at the start of every BBT. |
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TheArtemisBlack
Joined: Aug 28, 2022
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 21:07 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Well, to be honest, NAF format without progression and with resurrection could be competitive too, maybe even more than the BBT, if you are interested in playing at low TV with very few skills. The randomness of casualties affecting the next game is removed and there are no freaks, spam of cheap random skills etc.
There would not even be the need to make new teams, like at the start of every BBT. |
Yup, a resurrection BBT style format with NAF type built teams would also be an excellent, and very competitive, format.
It doesn't exist though, so BBT still has the trophy |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 21:10 |
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| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
All of your teams before Redraft was introduced look exactly like the teams you are currently complaining about. You do see that right? |
The huge difference is, I didn't play my teams at TV 1100 only and all my teams had at least 2 team rrs + Apo.
I faced very low TV teams with 1 rr, lots of cheap G and S skills, one team was without Apo. That's really a kind of extreme minmaxing I never did.
Also, when I played my own teams with freak ball carriers, they often faced teams with freak ball carriers, and with a set of skills, suck as Tackle and Mighty Blow or others, able to deal with them.
A freak at very low TV is way harder to counter than at mid-high TV.
Also I didn't stay low with my teams with freak ball carriers, I tried to stay max at 1500 TV, if possible.
| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
If you don't care about gaming the system, which it seems you haven't for years, just game the redraft system too? |
I don't understand this: what's wrong in having developed players, when everybody can have them as well?
My problem is not with that, my problem is when there is a TV 1100 team with a freak that should be on a 1300 or 1400 team, especially with Re-Draft it should not be possible, in theory. I suggested ideas to counter the minmax. If minmaxing is not countered I will just change my activation strategy, as I said. First, I like to be reasonable, before starting to find my own workarounds to an issue.
| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
It doesn't seem to bother you that nobody but you knows who has the 'top box Undead CR rating' so just keep doing the same thing? Job done |
I can play my guitar at home, without anybody listening to me, that doesn't make the thing less fun than playing with people listening to me.
You don't need that people acknowledge your goals, the simple fact of achieving the goal is the reward, even if nobody knows or cares about it. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Feb 19, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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 Posted:
Feb 18, 2025 - 21:47 |
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| MattDakka wrote: |
I have goals: for example, I try to be top 1 in the Box with the races I play.
After the game I linked I became top 1 with Undead in the Box (and Overall too).
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WOOOW!!!!
I've just discovered to be TOP 6 in the BlackBox Shambling Undead Ranking!
I am super strong!! So good!!
Tonight I will go to bed happy!
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_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Feb 19, 2025 - 00:22 |
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CrisisChris
Joined: Dec 11, 2023
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Feb 19, 2025 - 07:05 |
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I guess it is only a perceived 'fact' that most coaches spinning in the box are quite good. Which does not mean there are others as well. I test my luck there as well with some squishy Elves, so there is easy bait sometimes. 
But I do not have a clue if that means the average comp. level of a box game is higher than in e.g. the highest division of Super League.
Only as an indication, because the sample size is far to small and the rank can be misleading sometimes (IMO), in the 25 games I played in this BBT run so far I faced 4 Legends, 10 Mega-Stars, 7 Super-Stars and 4 Stars. |
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TheArtemisBlack
Joined: Aug 28, 2022
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 08:05 |
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| koadah wrote: | | TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
Yeah, I was just using 'best' as shorthand. It's the most competitive format on Fumbbl (or anywhere really). |
Is it more "competitive" than the Prem division of some of the bigger leagues?
How many of your BBT games are vs strong/average/weak coaches? |
Most big leagues everywhere suffer from the same things, the 'premier' division is not actually made up of all the best players.
It's usually a mix of some good players and some other players whose teams have done the work for them.
The lower leagues contain better players than people in that top league.
Super League here on Fumbbl is likely the best one to put forward due to it's res format removing that biggest issue, but then you still get the problem that it's res at NAF levels which is too low TV (especially now using the Eurobowl rules).
You'd also then have the issue that 'the top part' of a league is not a format, the league itself is the format. Also, the top part of any league anywhere is not going to be more difficult to play in than an all-invite tournament.
BBT also cleverly forces players to play multiple races including weaker ones.
The most competitive format ever would likely be something like a res BBT, online to allow more skills and slightly higher TV, and all invite to make sure everyone in it is of a certain level of play or above.
That's never happening |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2025 - 10:45 |
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I'm sure that not all the best coaches would be in the Prem. But I'd expect the overall level there to be better that the 2nd tier.
How often do the elite coaches run into each other in the Box? When they do, how often are they using similar tier teams?
I am sure that by the end of the season the people at the top will be the best coaches. But I'm more interested in the head to head than a mole whacking contest. 
The Gauntlet is interesting though. Is it interesting enough to get a link on the site navigation yet?
An invitational, mid TV, non-prog, Swiss(?) could certainly run in the [L]eague division if you could get people to sign up for it. And someone to run it of course. |
_________________
NO seasons! - Old style skill progression! - Secret League - All Stars 20th Anniversary Bowl - 12th March! |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Feb 19, 2025 - 11:39 |
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CrisisChris
Joined: Dec 11, 2023
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Feb 19, 2025 - 11:43 |
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| TheArtemisBlack wrote: |
The most competitive format ever would likely be something like a res BBT, online to allow more skills and slightly higher TV, and all invite to make sure everyone in it is of a certain level of play or above.
That's never happening |
Set it Up yourself! I really like the idea of a resurrection environment with a little bit more skills and budget than Eurobowl and blind pairing. And maybe even Matt would like it: No freaks! :-p
The question would be: Who sets the cornerstones (Budget, Skills, how many games with how many teams should be played etc.), will the current tier system be applicable for the slightly bigger teams, who will be invited and is the group big enough to allow variance while still maintaining a high overall coaching level.
Even if I am not part of that top coach group I would love to play in such an environment. |
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