Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 21, 2025 - 15:43 |
 
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I get you... and understand it would be fewer games in a season, but they'd still be broken.. It's a roster issue not a season length issue... realistically to get the effect you are looking for you'd need to reduce seasons to 6 games, and even then you'd have broken vamps for season 2 and 3... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 21, 2025 - 15:46 |
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I know it's a roster issue, but we can't fix the roster, we can just make it harder to develop/develop less.
Blood Bowl teaches to work on the things within our control, in this case Season and budget.
Another idea could be a hard TV cap set at 1500, but that would be a house rule, thus impossible to implement in the site.
Maybe max TV 1500 allowed to join a Major (but uncapped throughout the tournament). That could be reasonable, because a Commissioner should be able to decide a thing like that. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Mar 21, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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BeanBelly
Joined: Nov 14, 2019
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Mar 21, 2025 - 15:50 |
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Agreeing with Garion it’s more the roster issue. Shorter seasons would make slow developing teams even worse? I’d love to play a bit more Nurgle but after redraft my main team doesn’t feel particularly competitive. Not in the context of Season 2 box, full of top tier min/max horrors (some of them mine ^^).
Edit: crossed posts, yeah TV cap would limit vamps, but also seems unfair for coaches who love to build big teams from many other Rosters. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 21, 2025 - 15:53 |
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Nurgle sucks at 15 or 10 games anyway, not a big difference.
About building the big teams: I rarely face 1400+ teams in the Box. 1500 TV cap would not be a tragedy and during the tournament the team could actually grow.
Most people play Season 1 teams only or Season 2+ teams at low TV. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 21, 2025 - 16:08 |
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Honestly Dakka. What you are looking for is Box to be a resurrection tournament style... It's the only way this edition can be balanced in line with the type of game you'd like to play...
a bit like the World Cup Rules and Tiers... I don't think any of your suggestions would actually fix the problem.
I'm still going to keep playing coz it's a fun game. But there's nothing that can be done about vamps at the moment.... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 21, 2025 - 16:17 |
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I don't like resurrection tournament style.
My ideal format for the Box would be:
- max TV 1500;
- max TV gap 145;
- 3 skill slots per player;
- max 1 stat boost per characteristic.
Some variety with 3 skill slots, but no super freaks and unbalance.
Way more races would be playable in that format, compared to the current one.
About the Vampires: my suggestions are supposed to mitigate the problem while still sticking to official rules, not to fix it. As you said, it's a roster problem and to fix it you should tweak the roster. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:21 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | I don't like resurrection tournament style.
My ideal format for the Box would be:
- max TV 1500;
- max TV gap 145;
- 3 skill slots per player;
- max 1 stat boost per characteristic.
Some variety with 3 skill slots, but no super freaks and unbalance.
Way more races would be playable in that format, compared to the current one.
About the Vampires: my suggestions are supposed to mitigate the problem while still sticking to official rules, not to fix it. As you said, it's a roster problem and to fix it you should tweak the roster. |
You say you don't like res but what you then go on to describe is a ruleset that creates teams almost exactly like those found in res... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:39 |
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The differences are big: you have to play to get the skills, unlike in resurrection, no progression and the players can die/get injured (no res after the games).
You start at TV 1000 with a new team as usual, you play and get the skills.
Basically it's perpetual BB with injuries and deaths but with the TV, the numbers of skills and stat boosts kept in check, as compromise between roster variety and a certain degree of balance.
Way better than letting Vampires teams grow at higher-than-1500 TV like now, despite a Re-Draft just adding boredom to the meta. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Mar 21, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:45 |
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Those aren't big differences... the resultant team is basically a facsimile of res teams..
I think ideological you don't like the idea of res... which I understand.. but the more restrictions you add like those you specify the closer to res teams they get |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:46 |
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Not true. There is no res format with teams being able to reach 1500 TV and with permanent injuries, as far as I know. All the games are played at TV 1100.
There would be a lot of variety at TV 1500, compared to the 1100 TV of res format. 3 skills per player on each player (potentially) are way more than 1 skill per player, with max 6 skills overall.
Way more variety.
Right now teams don't even grow much more than 1400 in the Box, unless their coaches want to join a tournament.
Most games are at TV 1000-1200. This is closer to 1100 format than my format with cap at 1500.
Some races don't even get played at all, because with the Season Re-Draft, apart from the BBT squad-composition's purpose, they are pointless. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Mar 21, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:55 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:58 |
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Ok, how many skills can be added to 1100, then?
Up to 1500?
Can players suffer permanent injuries/death?
Can players get up to 3 skills and/or stat boosts each? |
Last edited by MattDakka on Mar 21, 2025; edited 6 times in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 21, 2025 - 17:59 |
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| koadah wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | | Not true. There is no res format with teams being able to reach 1500 TV and with permanent injuries, as far as I know. All the games are played at TV 1100. |
They are not played at 1100.
Teams start at that but then skills are added. How big the teams are depends on the number of skills allowed. |
This ^ and stats too |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Mar 21, 2025 - 18:22 |
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But the vamp winrate is bad
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2025 - 48%
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2024 - 47%
Obviously there'll be a lot of coaches who try it for a couple games, find it too complicated and quit
And the survivors are the ones who're good with them. (This applies to all rosters to some extent)
So it is skewed a bit by that.. but by how much? less than 5%, surely. Still in tier 2
I think there's a perception issue here too
When vamps beat you, it feels like they're totally broken and there was nothing you could do, and this sticks with you a lot
People don't remember as much the games where they smash vamps off the pitch, or the bloodlust / gaze dice failed
Well, perhaps even in those games they remember the threat the vamps had, the potential. and it is scary
But a lot of the time it doesn't work, as it requires so many dice rolls to make it happen |
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CrisisChris
Joined: Dec 11, 2023
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Mar 21, 2025 - 19:47 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | But the vamp winrate is bad
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2025 - 48%
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2024 - 47%
Obviously there'll be a lot of coaches who try it for a couple games, find it too complicated and quit
And the survivors are the ones who're good with them. (This applies to all rosters to some extent)
So it is skewed a bit by that.. but by how much? less than 5%, surely. Still in tier 2
I think there's a perception issue here too
When vamps beat you, it feels like they're totally broken and there was nothing you could do, and this sticks with you a lot
People don't remember as much the games where they smash vamps off the pitch, or the bloodlust / gaze dice failed
Well, perhaps even in those games they remember the threat the vamps had, the potential. and it is scary
But a lot of the time it doesn't work, as it requires so many dice rolls to make it happen |
Maybe add another POV: Most matches on Fumbbl are played on lower TV (for all rosters) and the whole 'broken Vamps' discussion seems to circle around high TV teams. So to answer the question of brokenness we would need to see a Win percentage of Vamps by TV brackets, right? |
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