MarckusOfCamlan
Joined: Jul 20, 2017
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 Posted:
Apr 21, 2025 - 15:50 |
 
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In my last match, a simple short pass with my wardancer would have allowed me to open the score.
But it failed despite a roll of 3+ for the throw, it failed.
I thought short pass gave a +1 bonus, rules sheet I saw on the net confirm it. Did I miss something? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 15:54 |
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Agility is not used anymore to work out throwing the ball, instead, Passing Ability is used.
A Wardancer has PA 4+ and Short Pass gives -1, not +1, thus he required a 5+ to perform an accurate Short Pass.
The modifiers are: Quick +0, Short -1, Long -2, Long Bomb -3, so a Wardancer requires, respectively, a 4+, 5+, 6+, 6+ to make an accurate pass.
Yes, passing is harder than before. |
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MarckusOfCamlan
Joined: Jul 20, 2017
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Apr 21, 2025 - 16:14 |
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I used the wrong name, it was Quick pass. I was almost touching the other player. Bt if quick pass gives no bonuses, it fits what happened.
I understand the choice to make it harder, but by 2 feels too much.
Thanks for your help. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 16:15 |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 19:38 |
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| MarckusOfCamlan wrote: | | I understand the choice to make it harder, but by 2 feels too much. |
Passing rolls haven't generally been made harder for passers. They've specifically been made harder for non-passer players. So if your player is not a passer as their positional speciality, they shouldn't be able to act like one now. They can still have a go at passing of course, and an elf is still much better than a skeleton!
If you haven't seen the changes around passing in the last ruleset, what you might also like to take note of is the "wildly inaccurate" rule. This is the really big change for actual dedicated passing playstyles (not just non-passer positionals who are "having a go" in a game). It really changes the risk/reward of passing, even for the supposed best passers in the game.
(Personally, I think it's absolutely stupid, unintuitive and illogical and refuse to accept it. I just play as if the rule doesn't exist and I accept that it will randomly rear its ugly head and completely ruin a game every so often. But you may want to approach it differently!) |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 19:48 |
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| Chingis wrote: | They can still have a go at passing of course, and an elf is still much better than a skeleton!
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Not when passing at Long and Long Bomb range and anyway, an Elf throwing a Quick pass on a 4+ is utterly silly. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Apr 21, 2025 - 20:50 |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 21:04 |
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(This discussion is maybe a bit of a tangent, but I don't think it's necessarily silly, it just pushes blood bowl more towards an American football framing where if someone who's not the one dedicated passer on the team is passing the ball, everyone seems to think it's very strange and something has probably gone wrong. Compared to say rugby, where everyone is expected to be able to pass, but some positions are expected to be able to pass especially proficiently. Whether American football is, in itself, a silly concept compared to rugby of course, I wouldn't like to comment...  ) |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 21:11 |
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In American Football there is only the Human race.
Elves, according to the lore, are better at passing the ball than Humans, even the non-dedicated passers (we can argue about how long a non-Thrower Elf could accurately throw the ball, but for sure he should throw Short and Quick Passes better than on a 4+ and 5+. It's the same as an Orc Blitzer or Lineman, and Orcs in WHFB and 40K have lower Ballistic Skill than Elves). Elves don't have S access, die in droves, they are outnumbered most of games.
Being able to pass with any Elf allowed to deal with being outnumbered, so, it had a gameplay balance reason as well, not just a lore reason.
Non-passing Elves should have PA 3+, at least. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Apr 21, 2025 - 22:46 |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Apr 21, 2025 - 22:59 |
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Oh, I completely agree! I think all the actual ball playing stuff (pick up, passing, catching, interception), should be made easier by something like the equivalent of 1 extra pip on a D6, for all races. A human stood unmarked in the backfield, away from the game, failing to pick up the ball from the floor for a couple of turns should not be anything like a 1/9 chance!
But I recognise that if you percieve passes (even quick passes) in American football terms rather than basic "throwing any kind of ball to your mate a few steps away" terms, then a significant passer/non-passer distinction can kind of make some sort of sense. |
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EastCoast
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
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Apr 21, 2025 - 23:47 |
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New throwing rules with PA as a skill is a great change. I do wish wildly inaccurate would use the sideline template so at least the throw sort of goes the intended direction. I do wonder, Chingis, if GW would ever consider looking at the way Blitz Bowl handles some of those ball interactions. It would fundamentally change the overall game, a lot, but I could see some intriguing possibilities. |
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moph
Joined: Sep 16, 2020
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Apr 22, 2025 - 00:45 |
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| Chingis wrote: | | ... A human stood unmarked in the backfield, away from the game, failing to pick up the ball from the floor for a couple of turns... |
is an important reminder (for me) that this game is intended as satire and should be primarily played for the laughs (even about your own failed actions). Same with the completely unnecessary zeros in the player prices.  |
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MarckusOfCamlan
Joined: Jul 20, 2017
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Apr 22, 2025 - 01:56 |
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To exagerate somme traits, like the violence is fun, making illogical and ridiculous situation happen isn't for me. A ball moving backward isn't fun to me.
I don't like loosing because on of those illogical throw... I don't like winning due to one. |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Apr 22, 2025 - 02:21 |
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| moph wrote: | | this game is intended as satire and should be primarily played for the laughs |
I agree, but you do need some kind of grounding for that to play out against, just like a funny man needs a straight man in a comedy duo.
"Imagine it's like a rugby match but you have an actual minotaur as one of your players!" That's fun, it subverts the norms and you can immerse yourself in that silly world.
"Imagine there's like elves and zombies and everything! But like it's weird anyway and nothing even makes internal sense in the universe and logic and physics doesn't really exist." That's less fun. Who cares if there's zombies if there's nothing solid that the presence of zombies is subverting?
It's very subjective as to where that line is of course, but to me a supposed in-world professional sports player being unable to pick the ball up off the floor for a quarter of a match starts to break that sense of immersion, as does someone (however cack-handed) throwing the ball to their mate ten yards in front of them but it ending up fifty yards behind them. These are things that supposedly work roughly the same in the fantasy lore as they do in the real world, but the game rules don't recreate that: they deviate wildly, like the passes ironically!
YMMV of course. |
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