Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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 Posted:
Jun 12, 2024 - 17:47 |
 
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hum. i suppose in a very short tt tournament (particularly resurrection, gag), that might have value. (i don't play that environment, so i hadn't considered that)
in a longer term environment (even say a 2 seasons of 8 games each league), i think developing the other players will be far more important |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 12, 2024 - 18:15 |
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| Irgy wrote: |
It's turn 8 or for whatever other reason you're running the ball in but you haven't used your blitz yet. Do you take the greedy blitz? If you do, 1/36 games this guy saves you a touchdown because you get the armour roll you wanted without the double-skulls. |
That's assuming 0 rrs left, I guess, otherwise it's 1/1296.
To be honest, it's really a niche situation to use an Assassin, I can live without taking the risky 1/36 Blitz before scoring.
The best use I have seen of him so far is stabbing AV 8+ Blodge ball carriers, caged or protected by Guards, and this at low TV. At mid-high TV he's too squishy to last enough on the pitch to have an impact.
Either you hide him and don't use him or you try to stab and with AV 8+ he gets smashed soon.
In CRP I used an Assassin with AG 5 as pseudo-Thrower and safety on Cyanide, but with AG 5 he could either cage dive or pass decently the ball (and be kept safe).
The BB2020 Assassin can't even be used as pseudo-Thrower, with PA 5+.
Assassins could be useful on a roster like this:
0-2 Blitzers
0-2 Witch Elves
0-2 Assassins with Dodge and PA 2+ (no Shadowing)
0-12 Linemen
Runners removed
as multi-role players (ball carriers with MA 7 and PA 2+ , thus useful even if kept protected) and last ditch attempt cage divers (with Dodge) Assassins could make sense. |
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Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
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it's just... unless they come with multi block/stab then really, no thanks.
any other stabber should be cheap and have high enough AV to go toe to toe with the other teams big guy for a few turns just hoping to stab |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Jun 12, 2024 - 23:06 |
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Sidestep would do it too for me... Or dodge... Or wrestle. Just anything to keep any die result except skull from being great against it. Hell I'd take diving tackle too and just make him a weird ball tagger. But delves don't need anything to make them better. Maybe move the assassin to elf union, buff it a little, and make it real mix of all 3 elf races. |
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Cathaidan
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
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Jun 13, 2024 - 20:11 |
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Maybe it is time to discuss the real issue with the Assassin: the AV 8.
Like, stab isn't a great skill at all. Shadowing is decent, but take it isn't a high priority on most teams. But the problem with the Assassin is that, if you fail the stab, you're a non-block, dodge, wrestle guy about to get punched in the face and you've only got AV8. Bump the assassin's armor up to at least match a lino, and it is a far superior piece to what it is today. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 13, 2024 - 20:21 |
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Assassins don't wear heavy armour, hence AV 8+ due to fluff reason.
Giving them Dodge would make more sense. They are supposed to be super agile and dodge hits, they don't rely on armour to soak damage up.
To make Stab useful they should have a skill like Hit And Run: after a Stab, if no double is rolled on AV roll, they can try a dodge (1 square away). In that case, they should not start with Dodge, to keep them balanced. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %13, %2024 - %20:%Jun; edited 2 times in total |
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smeborg
Joined: Jan 04, 2019
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Jun 13, 2024 - 20:26 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | .. ive explained my view. I disagree with basucally everything youve said. |
Welcome to the internet. |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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Jun 14, 2024 - 09:38 |
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| Cathaidan wrote: | Maybe it is time to discuss the real issue with the Assassin: the AV 8.
Like, stab isn't a great skill at all. Shadowing is decent, but take it isn't a high priority on most teams. But the problem with the Assassin is that, if you fail the stab, you're a non-block, dodge, wrestle guy about to get punched in the face and you've only got AV8. Bump the assassin's armor up to at least match a lino, and it is a far superior piece to what it is today. |
isn't this a high risk / high reward situation? the bread and butter of today's fast paced internet stuff? |
_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Jun 14, 2024 - 10:19 |
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It's high risk / low reward, which is the problem
If they're made better, it buffs DE but neglects the rest of the elves, which is also a problem |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 14, 2024 - 12:18 |
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Drop 2 DE Blitzers and they should be balanced compared to other Elves.
Still 6 quick Blodgers (0-2 Blitzers, 0-2 Witch Elves, 0-2 Assassins with Dodge) like the current DE.
I would give to all Elven Blitzers S access, by the way. Since Elves can't pass as well as in the past they need decent Blitzers, at least.
Humans can play a better passing game than Dark Elves but they have 4 Blitzers with S access (and Break Tackle can be used to dodge nearly as well as an Elf).
No reason not to give all Elven Blitzers S access. |
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The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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Jun 14, 2024 - 14:07 |
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Us Gobbos likez stabbin fingz, why karnt we av sumwun wiv stab? |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Jun 14, 2024 - 16:28 |
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It would be a good roster without them but they are mostly a vestigial piece that is more of a novelty.
It could be nice to view it as a unique non-maximal piece that is there for the fun of it. However, maybe it could be viewed as an additional move 7 piece.
If the dark elves maximize their MV7 pieces they could have 10 onfield as a running team...problem being that the wood elves do that better at more or less the same AV.
The 4 blitzers "could" screen off the av8 players but it's probably better to play a standard delf game which is strong in it's own right.
Playing a weaker mv7 style running attack is less stable than the unique running control with AG that a standard composition delf team can do foregoing both assassin pieces and runners or rostering x1 runner. Because Wood Elves can run av8 mv7+ easier than delves and if that is the playstyle you want you might as well play wood elves instead.
Since this is the case we can work up to fixing and or replacing the assassin.
The assassin in it's current form has been called a stunty killer but who isn't? That being said, throw up troll is better at sniping than assassin's because both need adjacency at the start of the turn to stab/throw up. However, a delf team is better off tagging a stunty twice and then blitzing with a blitzer w/3dice than sticking to a stunty with the current assassin. Because the assassin does not have st5 like the troll it is then a target because it needs to tag it could just as well be blocked without blitz and delves may be able to take a punch they aren't av10 tag and forget types.
What could fix the assassin may involve using stab in a pseudo blitz like vampire gaze. In other words, instead of tagging or blitzing you move up to a piece and stab ending the assassin's activation. The next action if the stab fails could involve blitzing the assassin free. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Jun 14, 2024 - 17:03 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Drop 2 DE Blitzers and they should be balanced compared to other Elves.
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This would make them balanced compared to the other elves. They can all be somewhere between bad and mediocre together!
Conversely, we can bump the other elf races up to 4 blitzers. Anyone wanna play vs 4 wardancers? |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 14, 2024 - 17:31 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 14, 2024 - 17:52 |
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| Carthage wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | Drop 2 DE Blitzers and they should be balanced compared to other Elves.
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This would make them balanced compared to the other elves. They can all be somewhere between bad and mediocre together!
Conversely, we can bump the other elf races up to 4 blitzers. Anyone wanna play vs 4 wardancers? |
With S access Elven Blitzers would be better.
I mean:
0-2 DE Blitzers with S access, 0-2 HE Blitzers with S access, 0-2 Wardancers with S access, 0-2 EU Blitzers with S access.
Not OP but they could take quickly MB and Guard.
With this horrible level up system they need 12 SPPs to pick an S skill. With old system you could have an S skill at 6 SPPs, in theory.
Blitzing without MB is not that good because most teams have AV 9+ or 10+. Blitzers should be more effective.
Since Elves can't pass as well as they used to do they should get something in return.
Skaven have 2 Blitzers with S access and 4 players better at oneturning than any of 4 Elven teams' players. |
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