MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Jan 26, 2025 - 11:53 |
 
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Yesterday I re-drafted all my teams and I noticed that after the Re-Draft their average TV is 1227.5.
Elven teams are expensive and it's hard to have a bench post Re-Draft, even after firing the developed players. Elven Union is an exception, but Dark Elves, High Elves and Wood Elves struggle. All the Elven Linemen but the Elven Union ones cost 70k, it's a lot for such a Re-Draft budget.
Moreover, I noticed that the teams without an Apothecary (such as Undead, Tomb Kings, Necro) have a Re-Draft advantage, because they don't have to re-hire him.
Slightly increasing the Re-Draft budget from 1350 to 1400 would help the teams with expensive players (expensive by default, not expensive because they are developed). |
Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 26, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Jan 26, 2025 - 12:20 |
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Didnt you wait redraft for 5 years ?
Already so unfair. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 26, 2025 - 12:25 |
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Yes, I did. But after trying it I think that 1350k is too low. I thought that after Re-Draft the teams would have been around TV 1300, not 1200.
It would be better to have a bigger Re-Draft budget (1400 or 1500) and a shorter Season (10-12 games), that way the average TV of the post-Re-Draft teams would be a bit higher.
As the Re-Draft is now, playing Elves is not appealing to me. I have to play 15 games just to get some core skills and then I can't even have a bench of 1-2 players.
Do we really want to play only Norse, Amazons, Undead, Dwarfs and Orcs?
As an aside, a hard TV cap would have been way better.
I embraced Re-Draft because it's the closest thing to a trim we can have by rules, but it's not the best way to keep the teams in check.
Hard TV cap set at a specific TV is the best way.
No need to do a boring bookkeeping task after X games with a hard TV cap.
It's the game of the fantasy football, not of the fantasy bookkeeping. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jan 26, 2025 - 13:47 |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jan 26, 2025 - 14:20 |
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I'd imagine Matt, that high elves, dark elves and wood elves are a little bit less pressured to have a bench if one is not trying to keep players like these:
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=16287245
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=15775639
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=15894668
One of the goals of the system is to prevent, or make very difficult, the ability of players such as the above to remain on rosters long-term. I grant that leaves you some very difficult decisions as regards to player numbers, rerolls, as well as basic retention, but if one does wish to keep such players then, overall, sacrifices will need to be made.
I am sure if the redraft cap is seen as completely inhibitive it will be revisited once there is enough data to draw conclusions that are more than anecdotal, but in the mean time I think it might be best to simply get the games in to provide that data 
The regen teams may not have to rehire an apothecary, but I believe they do not get the +1 to any niggle heal chances when keeping an injured player. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 26, 2025 - 14:27 |
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Even by firing all the freaks, with 1350k budget Elves don't have a bench and they are pretty unskilled. That's my point.
If I have to play Elves totally unskilled then I'm better off not playing them at all.
I'm not saying that I should have a freak, I'm saying that I should have at least 1 skill on some of them (Wrestle/Block or Dodge) to reduce the need of rrs.
I have just 2 rrs + Leader and Elves rely on single die actions. Passing has been nerfed too and even at TV 1200 Casualties come easy.
Without some core skills (not stacked on a single freak, just Wrestle/Block or Dodge here and there) playing Elves gets really frustrating.
And what if one of them dies after getting a skill? With Norse you just rebuy the player and he will have default Block, Elves have to survive long enough just to get a skill and then Re-Draft happens. |
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LIK
Joined: Jan 04, 2023
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Jan 26, 2025 - 15:28 |
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I think the problem with redraft rules is the stupid agency fee. Get rid of that and its fine. It just penalizes players who take a long time to sill up. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 26, 2025 - 16:51 |
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NO WHEY! Just like magic a Dakka thread appears on 1350tv cap on day2. |
_________________
"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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Silent_Hastati
Joined: Nov 04, 2014
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Jan 26, 2025 - 17:43 |
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| LIK wrote: | | I think the problem with redraft rules is the stupid agency fee. Get rid of that and its fine. It just penalizes players who take a long time to sill up. |
I agree here. I know we are probably sticking with Rules as Written, but if anything is houseruled, it should be this instead of the TV Cap itself. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 26, 2025 - 18:06 |
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Let's make an example:
a Wood Elf team ends its first Season and has to be re-drafted (quite minimalistic roster, no freaks):
2 Wardancers with 1 Primary skill each re-drafted = 330
1 Thrower fired and re-bought = 95
1 Catcher fired and re-bought = 90
1 Treeman fired and re-bought = 120
7 Linemen fired and re-bought = 490
3 rrs = 150
1 Apo = 50
total: 1325k (but real TV 1285, because 40k was spent on agent fees and this after re-drafting only 2 players from the past Season), not a really skilled team and with just 12 players, mostly squishy ones (who are not going to keep their SPPs and earned skills easily).
Basically only 2 skills are kept from a Season to another, in the example above.
Don't get me wrong, I don't ask to have a TV 2000 team after Season Re-Draft, but few more skills than just 2, like 3-4 (spread over different players, not stacked on a single one) and 13 players.
There is not that huge difference between playing a new Wood Elf team and a re-drafted one, that's my point.
At this stage we could discard the progression at all and play NAF-format only in the Box, at least there would be resurrection from a game to another and squishy teams would be less frustrating to play, without the Re-Draft bookkeeping hassle as well.
By the way, I find a bit silly that a Rookie player with 0-2 SPPs has an agent fee of 20k.
I could understand with 3 or more SPPs (because they could get a random skill after game 1 of next Season and this could be an exploit, thinking of Norse, for example).
Why a Rookie player with 0 SPPs should ask an extra agent fee, if they are utterly unskilled? It makes no sense.
It's just an annoying extra click during Re-Draft phase. |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:13 |
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I noticed with my teams that some players had done 2 seasons already. They cost an extra 40K instead of 20K. I know your teams play a ton Matt, perhaps that made for a (one time) reckoning now? Or did you pay +20K only after one season? |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:14 |
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And yes, it was painful to say goodbye to some of my developed players. But for the next round I can take this into account in how I invest in them. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:16 |
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These are the agent fees applied during the transition process:
- 0-24 games => 20k agent fee
- 25-49 games => 40k agent fee
- 50-74 games => 60k agent fee
- 75-99 games => 80k agent fee
- 100+ games => 100k agent fee
to make it "softer" for the pixelhuggers.
Normally the agent fee is +20k per Season played by a player.
Yes, I had some freaks, but my concern is not losing them, my concern is the future.
Even without stat freaks re-drafting Elves seems too harsh to me.
Yes, you can take into account Season Re-Draft in the next team building, but things won't change a lot. An Elven team looking like almost as a new Elven team is not that appealing. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 26, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:22 |
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It could well be. But you mention an average team value of 1227.5 after redrafting. In principle that's a rookie team that got 11 chosen skills. Or 5, 6 skills and a bench. Certainly not nothing, right? It also means agent fees were covered for about 5 or 6 players with 1 season that you wanted to keep. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 26, 2025 - 20:26 |
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The problem is that, without MVP nomination, you can't focus the SPPs on the players to get quickly the chosen skills (as soon as possible during the Season to use them for more games).
That means that it's hard to build a team with 11 chosen skills or 5, 6 skills.
You could have, after 15 games, 3 SPPs on a Lineman, 3 on a Thrower, 4 on a Catcher, and their cost would be increased by +20k (without actually being better than Rookies), which almost forces to fire them (thus making hard to get a skill on next Season). While you can afford to happily cycle Zombies in case of bad random skills, you can't do the same with Elves, because they are expensive and fragile. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 26, 2025; edited 4 times in total |
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