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2022-06-17 23:03:41
8 votes, rating 4.4
8 votes, rating 4.4
Pass or Die - Birth of Herzi HailMary's
"Passing sucks in BB2020."
"Passing is never the plan A."
"You only pass when desperate."
"Or turn 8..."
"There's no reason to hire a thrower."
That pretty much sums up the Google searches for passing in Blood Bowl 2nd season, am I right.
Running play is the name of the game, 2-1 grind, score on the last turn possible.
I tried that. It worked decently. It made me hate Blood Bowl for a while.
I love the High elves, I love the idea of a passing team, I love passing, but everyone seems to hate it in BB2020. It's not reliable, it's not a good plan, it's safer to just run the ball and hand-off, yadda yadda yadda. Is there really no serious consideration on how to effectively pass or is everyone just keeping the secret sauce of passing to themselves? I mean, High elves are apparently doing real good in tournaments and I doubt it's just the running game. I mean, I don't know, but I choose to believe it's because they can pass real good.
Enter the Herzi HailMary's.
1 thrower
2 blitzer
8 linelves
2 rr
Throw as much as you can. Get cannoneer on the thrower. Throw those 73% Long bombs from LoS to the Endzone. Do something fun for a change.
I've played five games now with the team, and it feels like it does what I want it to - creates a few scoring threats, and throws to score quick. It's thrilling, it's fun, and it's not what I googled!
It made me write a blog entry about it, because I think maybe passing has been passed over as a desperation play, when it is in fact another avenue off creating scoring threats. And just to be clear, I don't just throw. I do run it in every now and then. But I aim to keep a passing threat viable and a cannoneer thrower can keep a threat alive like there's no tomorrow.
I'll keep writing these every now and again, I think it helps me move forward with my thinking to put it in writing. If this makes someone reconsider passing options, nice. If someone figures out how to better beat me because of it, boo on you! But at least I'll have a record of how I felt passing the long bombs.
Maybe next time I'll write about kick.
"Passing is never the plan A."
"You only pass when desperate."
"Or turn 8..."
"There's no reason to hire a thrower."
That pretty much sums up the Google searches for passing in Blood Bowl 2nd season, am I right.
Running play is the name of the game, 2-1 grind, score on the last turn possible.
I tried that. It worked decently. It made me hate Blood Bowl for a while.
I love the High elves, I love the idea of a passing team, I love passing, but everyone seems to hate it in BB2020. It's not reliable, it's not a good plan, it's safer to just run the ball and hand-off, yadda yadda yadda. Is there really no serious consideration on how to effectively pass or is everyone just keeping the secret sauce of passing to themselves? I mean, High elves are apparently doing real good in tournaments and I doubt it's just the running game. I mean, I don't know, but I choose to believe it's because they can pass real good.
Enter the Herzi HailMary's.
1 thrower
2 blitzer
8 linelves
2 rr
Throw as much as you can. Get cannoneer on the thrower. Throw those 73% Long bombs from LoS to the Endzone. Do something fun for a change.
I've played five games now with the team, and it feels like it does what I want it to - creates a few scoring threats, and throws to score quick. It's thrilling, it's fun, and it's not what I googled!
It made me write a blog entry about it, because I think maybe passing has been passed over as a desperation play, when it is in fact another avenue off creating scoring threats. And just to be clear, I don't just throw. I do run it in every now and then. But I aim to keep a passing threat viable and a cannoneer thrower can keep a threat alive like there's no tomorrow.
I'll keep writing these every now and again, I think it helps me move forward with my thinking to put it in writing. If this makes someone reconsider passing options, nice. If someone figures out how to better beat me because of it, boo on you! But at least I'll have a record of how I felt passing the long bombs.
Maybe next time I'll write about kick.
Comments
Posted by Nelphine on 2022-06-18 06:45:04
in 2016, i believed passing was awful (i have a 78 game pro elf thrower who only has 116 passing yards), so i don't think that 2020 nerfed something, it just made something that was awful and allowed farming spp with completions, into something that is just awful, and now you mostly can't farm spp with completions.
Posted by ArDaSl on 2022-06-18 08:16:55
Look, with all due disrespect, why'd you come here posting about how you think passing is awful? It seems most people already do and I don't need to be reminded of that.
If you have anything to say about how to use passing as a scoring threat, then I'd be more than happy to hear your thoughts, heck I'd welcome them with open arms!
But please don't come here spewing the same shite about how passing is awful. I don't care to hear it and this is the wrong place for that.
If you have anything to say about how to use passing as a scoring threat, then I'd be more than happy to hear your thoughts, heck I'd welcome them with open arms!
But please don't come here spewing the same shite about how passing is awful. I don't care to hear it and this is the wrong place for that.
Posted by Nobby_Nobbs on 2022-06-18 14:08:44
One of the things I love about 2020 is the humans. The 2+thrower means you can create a really off brand fun human passing team. Throw in mv9 catchers and you can have some weird fun :). Would be nice if more teams like nobles and khemri or flings had that.
Posted by Nelphine on 2022-06-18 21:05:44
Because you did a public blog, about a topic I feel strongly about, and I wanted to clarify that 2020 (season 2) is not the source of that. All the people who are saying the new rules are the problem are incorrect. The new rules are not significantly worse for a serious passing game than the 2016 rules. So if you were willing to play in 2016 with throwers, I believe you should absolutely do the same in 2020 - it's still awful but if it's fun, by all means do so.
Posted by ArDaSl on 2022-06-18 21:19:52
It would be interesting to hear more about the 2+ thrower in humans and other Ag 3+ teams for sure. With High elves you can get a player or two dodging through opposing lines to create a passing threat, but how is it with Ag 3+ teams?
How have you been skilling up the thrower and do you get it in your starting roster or get it after a few matches?
How have you been skilling up the thrower and do you get it in your starting roster or get it after a few matches?
Posted by erased000047 on 2022-06-19 11:04:01
greetings from a self made a learned passing coach- I played high/dark and pro...gawd I love the pro elf catchers, yum yum....
woodies? passing, meh... the dancers take all the glory but the catcher was amazing in 2016, now? meh.
Problem is in 2020 all the elfs in the world sudenlly forget how to pass...and the darks loose any real good ability to play the pass game even IF you want to get original in your team build.. its sad so sad.. like one day the lineman could pass and then all of a sudden.. he forgot how to handle the ball..( enough of me rambling)
ok here goes - you want advice for passing? Here it is.. play Skaven. For some reason the skaven passer "found some P" (using a vague reference from the card game Munchkin) skaven passer stats : 7 - 3 - +3 - +2 - +8 sure hands , pass... so hes an elf with good move and comes with sure hands- (elfs don't) sure HE's get the safe pass package but , shrugs get the skills if you really think you need them, I don't. The first thing I do is get that thrower up to +1 P hopefully with his first advance. then cannoneer with +1P he becomes the best you can get in the game at 2/2/2/3 along the bar-
gutter runners are perfect catchers with move 9 -2 -+2 - +4 -+8.. get em diving catch/catch if you want but I like a variety of skills on the GR's.
now unlike elfs, skaven get a big guy -Rat Ogre and hes awsome save up 12 sp's for his first advance to get him block-
you also get 2 blitzers with block that have access to strength skills as a normal advance which elfs don't have.
really skaven have it all.. yum yum.. haha.
If you need specific help running strategy with passing pvt msg me and we can talk.
cheers-
Swampy-
woodies? passing, meh... the dancers take all the glory but the catcher was amazing in 2016, now? meh.
Problem is in 2020 all the elfs in the world sudenlly forget how to pass...and the darks loose any real good ability to play the pass game even IF you want to get original in your team build.. its sad so sad.. like one day the lineman could pass and then all of a sudden.. he forgot how to handle the ball..( enough of me rambling)
ok here goes - you want advice for passing? Here it is.. play Skaven. For some reason the skaven passer "found some P" (using a vague reference from the card game Munchkin) skaven passer stats : 7 - 3 - +3 - +2 - +8 sure hands , pass... so hes an elf with good move and comes with sure hands- (elfs don't) sure HE's get the safe pass package but , shrugs get the skills if you really think you need them, I don't. The first thing I do is get that thrower up to +1 P hopefully with his first advance. then cannoneer with +1P he becomes the best you can get in the game at 2/2/2/3 along the bar-
gutter runners are perfect catchers with move 9 -2 -+2 - +4 -+8.. get em diving catch/catch if you want but I like a variety of skills on the GR's.
now unlike elfs, skaven get a big guy -Rat Ogre and hes awsome save up 12 sp's for his first advance to get him block-
you also get 2 blitzers with block that have access to strength skills as a normal advance which elfs don't have.
really skaven have it all.. yum yum.. haha.
If you need specific help running strategy with passing pvt msg me and we can talk.
cheers-
Swampy-
Posted by naytsyrhc on 2022-06-19 11:53:56
I'm also one of those players who liked the passing game and doesn't like all the chances of BB2020 passing.
I like:
- new deflection/interception rules. Much more "realistic" and the dice roll sequence is now "correct"
- that passing is limited to some specialist, that you really need now
- distinguishing between short range and long range throwers (accurate vs canoneer)
- wildly inaccurate
I don't like:
- the nerfing/busting of some positionals (e.g. Dark Elf Runner PA 3+, but Skaven Thrower PA 2+)
- the odds for wildly inaccurate (i.e. WI more likely than fumbled pass)
- the distance and direction of WI
But overall, I still like passing and think it is a viable option for some teams and given a team development for passing.
You still do not pass every turn and you certainly don't do it for SPP farming anymore, but that's good IMHO.
I like:
- new deflection/interception rules. Much more "realistic" and the dice roll sequence is now "correct"
- that passing is limited to some specialist, that you really need now
- distinguishing between short range and long range throwers (accurate vs canoneer)
- wildly inaccurate
I don't like:
- the nerfing/busting of some positionals (e.g. Dark Elf Runner PA 3+, but Skaven Thrower PA 2+)
- the odds for wildly inaccurate (i.e. WI more likely than fumbled pass)
- the distance and direction of WI
But overall, I still like passing and think it is a viable option for some teams and given a team development for passing.
You still do not pass every turn and you certainly don't do it for SPP farming anymore, but that's good IMHO.
Posted by ArDaSl on 2022-06-20 17:53:35
I actually don't mind that other positionals and linos no longer do 2+ passes. 4+ with a re-roll is still a 75% play, so agile teams can still get that cheeky quick pass from other players too. But if you want to pass you need the thrower, and I think that's a good thing for the feel of the game. Of course that's a subjective thing but I like it.
I think Cannoneer and +1 PA is what 2+ throwers go for if the team wants to play the long pass. It just opens up so much more avenues of play than just sticking to quick and short passes. What I wonder is what one should do with a cannoneer who gets +1 MA / AV on the first stat up. It might even be good to go for +1 AV to keep the TV lower and lover the risk of the passer getting KO'd.
@naytsyrch brought up a really interesting point about long and short range throwers. I bet the leveling of those two different types of throwers is quite different. For instance, if you can go for blodge, which do you go first. Does a short range thrower go combat skills first before accurate? Are there other types of specialist throwers out there and how does one develop them?
P.S. I agree with the SPP farming. It felt really weird for a supposedly fast paced fantasy football game for two players to just play hot potato with the ball for half of the game.
I think Cannoneer and +1 PA is what 2+ throwers go for if the team wants to play the long pass. It just opens up so much more avenues of play than just sticking to quick and short passes. What I wonder is what one should do with a cannoneer who gets +1 MA / AV on the first stat up. It might even be good to go for +1 AV to keep the TV lower and lover the risk of the passer getting KO'd.
@naytsyrch brought up a really interesting point about long and short range throwers. I bet the leveling of those two different types of throwers is quite different. For instance, if you can go for blodge, which do you go first. Does a short range thrower go combat skills first before accurate? Are there other types of specialist throwers out there and how does one develop them?
P.S. I agree with the SPP farming. It felt really weird for a supposedly fast paced fantasy football game for two players to just play hot potato with the ball for half of the game.