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2010-08-10 17:04:45
20 votes, rating 4.5
20 votes, rating 4.5
Getting my Skaven TR above 200.
I have been playing Skaven a lot these past months, in Ranked, BlackBox and League games and it seems that no matter how many games I play, I almost never seem to be able to get any of my Skaven teams above TR 200. Usually it happens that my TR reaches about a maximum of 180-190, after which I sustain casualties; dropping my teams back in the 115 - 135 range. From there on; it's usually a long process to get back up to decent strength, as often times I have to play with less than 11 players and have to spend all my new winnings trying to get back up to 11 players.
I started checking out the highest TR teams and I found that there are extremely few Skaven teams on the first ten pages out of those; the strongest don't seem to have played since 2007, a couple of them even have Rat Ogres that date back from the time that they were allowed to pick general skills on normal skill rolls. Then, the next bunch of teams hasn't played since some time in 2009. The first Skaven team that I found that has played a game this far is ranked at #203, the Cheese Ninjas (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=357560).
Surprisingly, I found that there were tons more wood elf and elf teams that had been able to get a TR > 200. Which I found strange considering they mostly have an AV of 7 too. Though, I guess I suppose easy access to the dodge skill and having AG 4 helps in getting out of block range for those races.
Still, I would have expected that having cheaper players should have been an advantage for Skaven, in getting the TR up, as you are more likely to have more players. Now I guess I am considering the distribution of the TR in the team. For Skaven, it seems to me that most of the TR is located in 4 gutter runners and to a lesser extent 2 storm vermins. No need to explain that gutter runners are the prime targets for any opposing coach. I am figuring for Elves and Wood Elves, the TR is somewhat more spread out between blitzers/wardancers and catchers.
I dunno if anyone can help me with some sort of plan to more consistently nurture a Skaven team to higher TR and to have better odds at breaking through that invisible wall of TR 180 - 190. Right now I have one Skaven team that has been able to pass TR 200, but in all honestly, it just feels like I have been really lucky by achieving that.
I started checking out the highest TR teams and I found that there are extremely few Skaven teams on the first ten pages out of those; the strongest don't seem to have played since 2007, a couple of them even have Rat Ogres that date back from the time that they were allowed to pick general skills on normal skill rolls. Then, the next bunch of teams hasn't played since some time in 2009. The first Skaven team that I found that has played a game this far is ranked at #203, the Cheese Ninjas (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=357560).
Surprisingly, I found that there were tons more wood elf and elf teams that had been able to get a TR > 200. Which I found strange considering they mostly have an AV of 7 too. Though, I guess I suppose easy access to the dodge skill and having AG 4 helps in getting out of block range for those races.
Still, I would have expected that having cheaper players should have been an advantage for Skaven, in getting the TR up, as you are more likely to have more players. Now I guess I am considering the distribution of the TR in the team. For Skaven, it seems to me that most of the TR is located in 4 gutter runners and to a lesser extent 2 storm vermins. No need to explain that gutter runners are the prime targets for any opposing coach. I am figuring for Elves and Wood Elves, the TR is somewhat more spread out between blitzers/wardancers and catchers.
I dunno if anyone can help me with some sort of plan to more consistently nurture a Skaven team to higher TR and to have better odds at breaking through that invisible wall of TR 180 - 190. Right now I have one Skaven team that has been able to pass TR 200, but in all honestly, it just feels like I have been really lucky by achieving that.
Comments
Posted by RC on 2010-08-10 17:52:45
Dodge more with the linerats at the end of the turn. Don't leave them next to players. Dont play with all 4 gutters on the pitch, 2 is enough and keep the rest safe in the doughout. Specialize your gutters into defensive and offensive players.
Posted by Wreckage on 2010-08-10 17:53:29
Well I think dodge is a very strong addition for the healthiness of a player and weights more then av+ in most cases...
I think the lower pricing is indeed a help for skaven particularly on the gamestart... but you have to keep in mind that the more skills a team accumulates the lower the part of the starting expenses gets... woodelves have one agility more, wich in effect increase their xurvivability... that's like 1 extra skill on every player. A woodie lino is 20 k more expensive then skaven. Wich is 2 TR. The first skill is a bit more then 1 TR. The second is 2 TR and the third skill is already 3 TR.
A skaven lino with lets say block, dodge and a general skill of your choice will be not able to manover himself on the field like an ag4 elf can, cannot protect himself, but at the same time he will cost more TR wise then his two skill Blodge Lino Woodelf counterpart.
Now the reason what makes Skaven still comeptetive is, that you don't necessarily play often with so many skills... nevertheless in the TR/TS area you are suggesting, the amount of skills will certainly matter.
If the player develops furhter and the woodie adds sidestep to the mix, the discrepancy to the skaven player gets even worse...
I think the lower pricing is indeed a help for skaven particularly on the gamestart... but you have to keep in mind that the more skills a team accumulates the lower the part of the starting expenses gets... woodelves have one agility more, wich in effect increase their xurvivability... that's like 1 extra skill on every player. A woodie lino is 20 k more expensive then skaven. Wich is 2 TR. The first skill is a bit more then 1 TR. The second is 2 TR and the third skill is already 3 TR.
A skaven lino with lets say block, dodge and a general skill of your choice will be not able to manover himself on the field like an ag4 elf can, cannot protect himself, but at the same time he will cost more TR wise then his two skill Blodge Lino Woodelf counterpart.
Now the reason what makes Skaven still comeptetive is, that you don't necessarily play often with so many skills... nevertheless in the TR/TS area you are suggesting, the amount of skills will certainly matter.
If the player develops furhter and the woodie adds sidestep to the mix, the discrepancy to the skaven player gets even worse...
Posted by p4m on 2010-08-10 18:20:10
rubbish, there are tons of rat teams that were higher than tr250 some even over 300 ;) just cos there are not at the moment, cos they tend to play on. And that is the point you are right: rats arent made for staying alive at that highness.
just a quick check on your teams say to me: play more games with just 1 team! they will reach higher TR all of alone. :)
just a quick check on your teams say to me: play more games with just 1 team! they will reach higher TR all of alone. :)
Posted by DukeTyrion on 2010-08-10 20:13:23
Not sure why you want your TR over 200 (unless you are planning on entering a Major).
I think Skaven play better in the 140-180 TR range.
I think Skaven play better in the 140-180 TR range.
Posted by Garion on 2010-08-10 20:44:51
I am pretty rubbish with skaven my self, but it seems to me you need to try and preserve your players a little better. don't go charging into bocking battles with your opponenets, use your linemen as a screen and your storm vermin as blitzers to free your ag3 players up. Obviously your gutter runners are the importabnt players so use them to get the ball and score and try and use the rest of the rats in a zonal defence formation instead of man to man. That pretty much all the advise I an offer though. Once the new client is finished you will find it a lot easier to keep your rats alive I feel because they will not be fouled constantly any more, in lrb4 I foul rats a hell of a lot probably more than any other race.
Posted by truckerpunk on 2010-08-11 21:59:59
I find it hard to get rats above 200TR too. What I do is never have more than 3 gutters on the pitch at a time, and preferably only 2. And the key is not to be afraid to score with your linerats!! Make that hand-off, instead of letting the ball-hogging gutters steal away all the SPP's. And if you still have your apo in late game, don't hesitate to use it on a skilled linerat. Gutters are easy to build, but a good linerat can take a while.
That's just how I play the vermin.
That's just how I play the vermin.
Posted by avien on 2010-08-11 23:47:20
A lineman with block has his lifespan increased. If you can get block on most of your linemen, it will help your entire team, since more players on the pitch, keep the others alive. It's also a more competitive team, than a team consisting of über GRs and rookie linemen. Other than that, I think that most large skaven teams pick their games, choosing preferably elves and other skaven. It may be frowned upon, but if you really want a big skaven team, that is by far the easiest method.
Posted by p4m on 2010-08-12 14:46:57
picking elves is rather a bad idea... WE same mobility and more blodge, DE + HE will outbash you and as a more or less experienced skaven coach, i tend to lack tackle. And skaven vs skaven is a pure luck game... (concerning the win and cas ratio). If i check my stats, the easiest way to get a big team is playing chaos, orcs and humans. :)