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2014-07-17 18:37:44
12 votes, rating 2.3
12 votes, rating 2.3
Another Malaysian jet down
I hate this world. If Russia was involved, world got to find some balls and do something more than fining Rosneft, VEB, GPBRU and Novatek.
Comments
Posted by vaclav on 2014-07-17 19:22:38
why the hell that plan flew over the war zone? Who ever did it, i dont want to belive it was on purpose... really terrible staf in the sea of terriblness this days..
Posted by Chainsaw on 2014-07-17 19:25:46
Plane was flying at a very high altitude. No fly zones are not 2D.
Posted by vaclav on 2014-07-17 19:44:44
hm.. not like its afrikan tribes at war(no offense)both sides has sophisticate weapons and this is not the first plane that was shot down in this conflict. just saying, this looks a bit odd. doesnt matter anyway, with almost 300 people dead...
Posted by Randy_Moss on 2014-07-17 20:35:13
Where's Jack Bauer? If terrorists get to be real, then Jack Bauer ought to be real too. Only fair.
Posted by Shakall on 2014-07-17 21:47:43
I red about it but I missed that Russia shot it down. Well hopefully the World grow some balls and attack Russia that would make the World much better?
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-07-17 21:49:58
Yeah, world wars are great...
Posted by Fishsoup on 2014-07-17 22:28:40
Commercial airliners go AROUND no-fly-zones, this was not ID'd as such, or something of similar effect. From what I've seen/read/heard thus far, there's a lot of Russian suspicion about it... between this and everything that's been going on with Syria, Israel v Hamas, and the like... I'm expecting WWIII to be any year now.
Posted by Topper on 2014-07-18 00:19:59
Okayyy - relax a tad there guys.
It´s far from certain that Russia was involved (I doubt they were directly) - though it´s very likely that it was Pro-russian militias who did it.
All other planes that have been shot down before were Ukrainian military planes - that´s quite different..
With sophisticated weapon systems like the ones used here you don´t "shoot randomly into the air and then hits a plane" - they have target locks etc..
Attacking Russia??? Seriously.. I mean after the "great successes" at Irak & Afghanistan you wan´t to fight a country many times their size, capability & weaponry - to teach them a lesson in democratic lifestyle??
It´s far from certain that Russia was involved (I doubt they were directly) - though it´s very likely that it was Pro-russian militias who did it.
All other planes that have been shot down before were Ukrainian military planes - that´s quite different..
With sophisticated weapon systems like the ones used here you don´t "shoot randomly into the air and then hits a plane" - they have target locks etc..
Attacking Russia??? Seriously.. I mean after the "great successes" at Irak & Afghanistan you wan´t to fight a country many times their size, capability & weaponry - to teach them a lesson in democratic lifestyle??
Posted by dode74 on 2014-07-18 00:28:34
Not convinced it was a no-fly zone at all. This is the NOTAM (notice to airmen): http://www.notaminfo.com/latest issued 30 Jun 14.
For those who don't read aircrew-speak it basically says that operators are "strongly advised" to remain clear of a defined geographical area (no height limits given), but that both Russia and Ukraine were giving air traffic control services. The airspace was (and in particular the airways were), to all intents and purposes, open, but with the potential for there to be issues.
MH-17 was a Boeing 777. These are big jets flying at high altitude (reported 33,000') with high-bypass engines. A hand-held missile could not have shot this jet down - it would have been very hard to get an IR lock (due to distance and engine design) and the aircraft was higher than the ceiling of most such systems.
Reports say an SA-11 was used to shoot the aircraft down. If that is so then this is a highly specialised (and big and expensive!) piece of kit requiring specific training. If (and I stress "if") this was a shoot-down by an SA-11 then it was not carried out by rag-tag rebels but by trained individuals with serious cash behind them.
For those who don't read aircrew-speak it basically says that operators are "strongly advised" to remain clear of a defined geographical area (no height limits given), but that both Russia and Ukraine were giving air traffic control services. The airspace was (and in particular the airways were), to all intents and purposes, open, but with the potential for there to be issues.
MH-17 was a Boeing 777. These are big jets flying at high altitude (reported 33,000') with high-bypass engines. A hand-held missile could not have shot this jet down - it would have been very hard to get an IR lock (due to distance and engine design) and the aircraft was higher than the ceiling of most such systems.
Reports say an SA-11 was used to shoot the aircraft down. If that is so then this is a highly specialised (and big and expensive!) piece of kit requiring specific training. If (and I stress "if") this was a shoot-down by an SA-11 then it was not carried out by rag-tag rebels but by trained individuals with serious cash behind them.
Posted by Shakall on 2014-07-18 00:30:43
Trying to be a bit sarcastic?
Posted by Topper on 2014-07-18 00:55:47
"If that is so then this is a highly specialised (and big and expensive!) piece of kit requiring specific training. If (and I stress "if") this was a shoot-down by an SA-11 then it was not carried out by rag-tag rebels but by trained individuals with serious cash behind them."
Well of course it was shot down by something like that - however the Pro-russian militias aren´t neither "rag-tag" nor ill-equipped. They have many battle hardened veterans from the Russian army amongst them (and no, I don´t mean Russians (though they are there too, no doubt), but Ukranian soldiers who fought for Russia)
Well of course it was shot down by something like that - however the Pro-russian militias aren´t neither "rag-tag" nor ill-equipped. They have many battle hardened veterans from the Russian army amongst them (and no, I don´t mean Russians (though they are there too, no doubt), but Ukranian soldiers who fought for Russia)
Posted by Topper on 2014-07-18 00:58:17
Also I´ll bet my old hat, beard and my blue eyes on that it wasn´t Russia. What on earth would they get out of that? Ukraine, then? Seems as likely as a Jack Bauer day ;)
Posted by dode74 on 2014-07-18 01:01:37
Training does not supply a working SA-11. This is not "militia" equipment, it's a huge bit of kit, expensive to maintain and to run. It's a massive step up from a few APCs to one of these things. Event the Taliban didn't have these. Where did they get it? How long have they had it? Where did they store it? Who maintained it and trained the crew? [i]Countries[/i] have trouble affording these things - it requires its own logistics train just to maintain the missiles!
Posted by dode74 on 2014-07-18 01:30:32
Seems the separatists may have stolen a battery of these things from the Ukrainian military when they took some bases a few weeks back...
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-07-18 01:40:31
Probably a false flag to distract from the genocide in Palestine.
Posted by Dunenzed on 2014-07-18 04:25:05
Echoes of History: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Tragically the exercise and projection of power is full of horrors like this.
Tragically the exercise and projection of power is full of horrors like this.
Posted by fidius on 2014-07-18 06:09:27
Not even close JF. Try this:
Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza ceasefire; Hamas keeps firing. Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel painstakingly tries to avoid them, actually telephoning civilians in the area and dropping warning charges, so-called roof knocking.
“Here’s the difference between us,” explains the Israeli prime minister. “We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”
Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza ceasefire; Hamas keeps firing. Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel painstakingly tries to avoid them, actually telephoning civilians in the area and dropping warning charges, so-called roof knocking.
“Here’s the difference between us,” explains the Israeli prime minister. “We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”
Posted by Shakall on 2014-07-18 06:50:09
That such a load of crap. The sionists has been systimatically killing Arabs before the state of Israel existed. The founding fathers (mothers) of the state where real terrorists. Its really sad that people just swallow the victors PR and aplaud yet another attack on the Pallestine people. Whats the deathcount now 1-250 in favour of Israel? Please pick up a history book and try to have it like a second kind of information source.
Posted by buuface on 2014-07-18 07:29:44
Fidius are you a zionist?
Posted by dode74 on 2014-07-18 09:57:20
Fidius, actions > words.
Since 7 July, 260 palestinians dead (including 49 children), 2 Israelis dead.
So yeah, real "painstaking avoidance" of civilian casualties there. Of course, that'll only get better now that there's a ground invasion...
Since 7 July, 260 palestinians dead (including 49 children), 2 Israelis dead.
So yeah, real "painstaking avoidance" of civilian casualties there. Of course, that'll only get better now that there's a ground invasion...
Posted by vaclav on 2014-07-18 21:45:33
So, you would feel better, if there was more israelis dead? number of casualties doesnt prove anything.
Posted by Shakall on 2014-07-19 10:56:31
Really numbers don't prove anything? Care to indulge me in the logic behind that statement. What Israel is doing to the Pallesinian people is genocide, I know all Israeli friends don't want to admit to it and that sickens me.