Posted by PurpleChest on 2014-11-14 13:14:22

coming next:
Statistical analysis of preferred defecation sites of Bears reveals 'In the Woods' as top option.

Followed up by a normalised control study of the belief patterns of past popes points towards next one possibly being catholic.

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 13:18:48

To do list for blackbox threads:

Step 1) Point out redundancy.
Step 2) Claim nothing is wrong.

It's cool people are on the ball about making sure the situation feels hopeless.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-11-14 13:26:48

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 13:27:01

I'm reminded a little of my days playing chess, when players would relieve the stress of thinking too hard by playing Bughouse or Blitz Chess. The bad players got caught up in it and only played those modes, because they were easier. In this example though, it doesn't matter because both groups have fun. The box is like this except you can't play regular chess anymore because these are the same game.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-11-14 13:28:18

What is Ranked?

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 13:34:07

An open farming league.

Posted by Calcium on 2014-11-14 15:34:07

Usual coma inducing nonsense from the 'remove the BLOOD from Bloodbowl' camp :/

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 15:42:28

Oh yeah that's what this is.

I'm hurt that my pixels are dead and not that playing the same 5 teams repeatedly is boring as digging holes.

Get a clue.

Posted by Calcium on 2014-11-14 15:47:19

Boring for you maybe. I couldn't care less how you play BB. I don't play BB the way you want me to, so what is the solution? You gonna get all 'nazi' on us clawPOMBers? Lock us up in our own special division? Thankfully Christer can see where that road would lead FUMBBL, and coaches like you won't ever get your way.

Is that clue enough for you?

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 15:59:45

Clearly not since you never manage to see an inch past the crap you spit everywhere at bigger pictures. It's all or nothing hyperbole with you all the time. Yes, clearly my post about getting 52% of 5 races was a call to LOCK UP DA BLEEDERS AND PROTECT MY MANS. Get out, useless.

Posted by BillBrasky on 2014-11-14 16:12:19

One cliché goes: "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

If you want more diversity, play more diverse teams. Others will follow in suit.

It also depends on the time you play. I have seen a lot of elf teams lately.

Humans have always been greatly represented.

If you have a love of dwarf & orc, I've played plenty of those too.

There have been no shortage of goblins. I've seen a few halflings as well.

I do concede that killstack teams are disproportionately represented. But I think the answer lies in playing more diverse teams.

We can only be responsible for our own actions.

Posted by awambawamb on 2014-11-14 16:16:03

I have a GREAT IDEA:

...set up a division where the worse injury is always Badly Hurt.
However, Star Player Points are capped at 16. or 6.

Posted by BillBrasky on 2014-11-14 16:19:08

One other observation. I think maybe because you play so few Black Box games, it feels worse.

I just looked at your last team. You retired after 40 games with a pro elf team. You had a winning record.

And to the point, 40 games is a small sample size, but you still managed to play 1 game vs all 24 teams. I'd say that is plenty diverse.

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 16:24:28

Too bored with it to continue. I'm not that persistent I guess.

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 16:34:10

I mean, you draw nurgle for the first time, ok! Let's do this, gunna be tough but I'll try some strategies. Win or lose, it'll be ok. Then you draw them again and it's a little kick as a recovery game but you're like ok whatever its a fluke I'll go again. Then you get them again. Then the fourth time you flinch when the word nurgle pops up on your screen. Then you draw some chaos for good measure. No balance of hunter-killers and guards/carriers/positions minds you, just raw 50-65% win rate killstack. Yay for the 11 on 3 game after my loners all get KO'd.

Posted by King_Ghidra on 2014-11-14 17:02:45

Bill, from what I see he played 16 of 24 races with that pro elf team. Nurgle / Chaos made up 35% of his opponents over 40 games. Is that diversity?

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-14 17:06:39

And Bill, just to be sure, I picked out a few random teams with huge records and found all the exact same trends. 50-58% match rate vs the BIG 5, with long streaks like above, and the coaches piloting big 5 teams are doing so almost exhaustively, their team page peppered with little 10/2/8 failure to launch teams and 100/100/100 stress relief goliaths. The conclusion to draw is not that people are doing it because it is fun, but that people are SETTLING on it because it is the most POSSIBLE fun in the setting. Not the climate I believe box should be fostering. Diversity makes BB FUN.

Posted by King_Ghidra on 2014-11-14 17:17:37

"The conclusion to draw is not that people are doing it because it is fun, but that people are SETTLING on it because it is the most POSSIBLE fun in the setting."

Agree 100%

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-11-14 17:57:22

Wow you must think people are goons.

Posted by BillBrasky on 2014-11-14 18:07:57

Just to clarify, are the "Big 5," Chaos, Nurgle, Chaos Dwarf, Orc, and Dwarf?

I think my WMDs are the most played game in the Black Box with 2330 games. Arguably the largest population size.

Those are our 5 most common match-ups.

Posted by PainState on 2014-11-14 18:43:14

Well this is interesting..so I pulled the stats on the Blood Sea Buccaneers over in Ranked just to see.

So 1211 matches

352 VS the Big 5 group 29%

254 VS the Big 4 elf group 21% <<<<< Elves fear the Buccaneers, yes, serious, they run to the hills most of the time.

606 VS all the rest. 50%


SO here is the conclusion.

IF your #1 goal is to play in a scheduler division then you must deal with the realities of that Division.

If your #1 goal in the end is diversity then go play Ranked.

As 67 pages in that other thread have shown us..YOU CANNOT have a scheduler AND diversity of match up across the board. They exclude each other.

THUS if you want both existing in the same Division I hate to be the one to inform you of this...IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-11-14 19:22:29

Painstate wins!

Posted by pythrr on 2014-11-14 20:27:58

i thought clawbomb whine threads had been banned?

Posted by Malmir on 2014-11-14 21:02:00

Quote: The conclusion to draw is not that people are doing it because it is fun, but that people are SETTLING on it because it is the most POSSIBLE fun in the setting.



This is why I only now play bash in the box.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-11-14 21:12:25

Is that the same reason you play bash in ranked?

Posted by pythrr on 2014-11-14 23:09:26

ooo, burn!

Posted by The_Murker on 2014-11-15 01:58:02

"The conclusion to draw is not that people are doing it because it is fun, but that people are SETTLING on it because it is the most POSSIBLE fun in the setting. Not the climate I believe box should be fostering."

Most complete summation of Box's problem in a long time. Well said.
The human league has tried for over 3 years to increase diversity. It generates discussion, and some team spirit, but 'leading by example' hasn't changed things much. The big 5 still regin it seems. I don't miss playing that kind of Black Box that much. I'd play again if the rule changes were at least tested.

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-15 02:27:43

@Painstate I'd be interested in elaboration on your point. Why do you think it would be impossible?

Posted by Malmir on 2014-11-15 09:14:15

I play a variety of races in ranked Jimmy. I prefer bashy races but when I do want to play dark elf, or Wood Elf, or Lizards, it's not box I go to...

Posted by Wizfall on 2014-11-15 10:38:30

And you behave wrongly doing so IMO Malmir (especially Lizards which are extremely well suited for Box).

As a bash coach, like a lot of people, i guess you dislike the possibility to be outbashed (especially massively outbashed, thing you can mostly avoid in R) almost as much as losing.
Personally, once i accepted i was going to be massively outbashed time to time, all was good (and in practice it happens much less than i expected).

I have no problems playing light team in Box, except for some few money issues and bad draw because too low TV for my number of games (despite no minmax at all).

Also a matter of pride in the end, not willing to make the Box more bashy and being able to take it.

Posted by Malmir on 2014-11-15 12:27:21

Actually you are wrong Wizfall. I don't have a problem with losing players - it is part of the game. However I like entering majors, which is the only reason I play box at all. Every time I have played an elf team in box it has been utterly destroyed before I got any near a major. Now my bashy teams haven't fared much better up to now, however I feel they have a better shot if I can try and give a bit back and it is less frustrating to come up against the clawpombers if you at least feel you have a chance of hurting them. I am currently playing dwarves as when I am replacing players they at least come with some useful basic skills in the hope I can have a team for the next major. That's my reasoning and whether you agree/respect it or not is your opinion but it won't affect it.

Posted by Calcium on 2014-11-15 13:04:54

I think Relezite took his coach profile pic after one of his teams had been clawPOMBed into oblivion....cheer up mate

Posted by Wizfall on 2014-11-15 14:36:39

I really did not want to imply you fear losing players Malmir.
I have interpreted your attitude about hating to play game where the possibility of being massively outbashed exist, which is totally different (and my case before).
You certainly don't need my agreement or respect lol.
And sorry if i misinterpreted you, just translated your case to my former attitude.

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-15 15:01:39

Ugh, I do need to update that picture.

Posted by Jeffro on 2014-11-15 15:46:00

Just don't revert back to the one you had with that other shirt. My brain is still scarred from that...

;D

Posted by Relezite on 2014-11-15 17:18:17

Lose the shirt, got it.

Posted by Immeli on 2014-11-16 02:20:53

Heh, I love the observation, that the Box is pretty much prisoners dilemma.

all the comments TL;DR