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2012-08-08 20:15:05
26 votes, rating 4.9
26 votes, rating 4.9
autochallenge: considerations
maybe some of you have faced my team, autochallenge.
it's a DE team with the purpose of face anyone who wants to play against it.
i've played 62 games with em, and i'll go on till i'll continue havin fun with it. but now i wanna share considerations i've made about this challenge to myself, some on the game, some on the people i've faced. the ones of the game are less important, maybe you'll find more interesting the ones on the other coaches, so skip the points 1 2 and 3 and just read the others, or, if you want, direclty to the one i consider the most important, the 6th.
1-you have not to take care about your players.
i've lost 2 blitzers that probably have been the best players i've had this year, but...who cares? pixels, and it's part of the challenge, it's in the spirit of it, and it's fine if players die. i've learned that there aren't players so much important that ruin an entire team if they die, every team deserves to go on if it loses a key player. ok, there will be hard games after a bad rip, but...let's go on! the team can survive:)
2-de don't need positionals
ok, i've never tried the assassin, but i won't do it the same. the runner isn't a key player, dump off is a skill i'd like to never use, a blitzer is always a great ballcarrier, and witches are maybe overrated: usually i haven't money to buy em, but i'm findin this not a big problem. ok, they're cool, but the heart of the team is to have 4 good blitzers, all the rest is really less relevant.
3-de is the race need guards more
no catcher, all st3, i've found i NEED guard much more than other elf races: but maybe its because i'm not a great player, good coaches maybe think this is a stupid thing.
4-buddy list
the 1st thing i've noticed after all these games it's that i've increased the number of people that have added me on their buddy list. i've found that when you play games you know they'll be a true challenge (or a true suicide) you can play more relaxed, can laugh more...players die and die and die? i'm plain against cd, what else could i expect?
i'm still a person that complains a lot, i know, but this challenge maybe has helped me to grow up a bit as coach, be less "rude" and laugh more. and...i'm happy of it, really. dunno if buddy list is a good indicator, but i've interpreted it this way.
5. CR
in this period i've played mainly this team, so my CR is linked with the result of this team. i've made a major winning streak, i've reached 172,61 CR and been 16 on top coaches list: now i'm on 157, reached the star status after months i wasn't so low. what it means? nothing:D i really can't deserve the legend status, i'm not a pro coaches, but, for example, for one period my CR was higher than the one of Azure. it means CR is, sometimes, useless, a bluff. the autochallenge has teached me CR is less relevant that how it seems, i've faced people that with cr150 or so played really better than me and people with 166 or higher make really poor plays: Cr is really nothing more than a number.
6. people like to win easily.
i've noticed it after the growth of new gamefinder. i've played more than 30 games, i can face everyone. so i just say ok to all the games GF purpose to me and accept the 1st one that appears. my problem is the kind of games i've seen: 2000tv chaos vs 1500 bad skilled de for example is a game that i'd never play:) i've made more than 1 game of that kind that i haven't lived as a challenge, but as a game lost since the start. ok, you can have a lucky wiz, eldril in a great day, but that's not the point: some games are more or less impossible. and, if i know it, my oppo knows it too. so...why the offer? what's the point making games you know you'll win? it's so important win a game? why not take something more interesting? gf is full of games, why take the easier, or, worse, the one you KNOW that will be an happy walk trogh the field? i'd like to play games that i'd rarelly play in normal situations, and i've had really hard games with great coaches (that i've lost:P), but this thing that is happenin since new GF has been implemented makes me a bit...sad. when there was the old gf you could see the list of all the teams: the fact that there were so many teams between a 1500 tv team and a 2000 tv was a psycological wall, that has fallen now...and i hope that i'm wrong, but maybe someone abuse of it, people have now more courage offerin bad games. you'll tell me "people can refuse it", but that's not the point...why even offer games won before they start? it's not another complain about clawpombs, i've had cool games with em, i'm talkin in general.
it's a DE team with the purpose of face anyone who wants to play against it.
i've played 62 games with em, and i'll go on till i'll continue havin fun with it. but now i wanna share considerations i've made about this challenge to myself, some on the game, some on the people i've faced. the ones of the game are less important, maybe you'll find more interesting the ones on the other coaches, so skip the points 1 2 and 3 and just read the others, or, if you want, direclty to the one i consider the most important, the 6th.
1-you have not to take care about your players.
i've lost 2 blitzers that probably have been the best players i've had this year, but...who cares? pixels, and it's part of the challenge, it's in the spirit of it, and it's fine if players die. i've learned that there aren't players so much important that ruin an entire team if they die, every team deserves to go on if it loses a key player. ok, there will be hard games after a bad rip, but...let's go on! the team can survive:)
2-de don't need positionals
ok, i've never tried the assassin, but i won't do it the same. the runner isn't a key player, dump off is a skill i'd like to never use, a blitzer is always a great ballcarrier, and witches are maybe overrated: usually i haven't money to buy em, but i'm findin this not a big problem. ok, they're cool, but the heart of the team is to have 4 good blitzers, all the rest is really less relevant.
3-de is the race need guards more
no catcher, all st3, i've found i NEED guard much more than other elf races: but maybe its because i'm not a great player, good coaches maybe think this is a stupid thing.
4-buddy list
the 1st thing i've noticed after all these games it's that i've increased the number of people that have added me on their buddy list. i've found that when you play games you know they'll be a true challenge (or a true suicide) you can play more relaxed, can laugh more...players die and die and die? i'm plain against cd, what else could i expect?
i'm still a person that complains a lot, i know, but this challenge maybe has helped me to grow up a bit as coach, be less "rude" and laugh more. and...i'm happy of it, really. dunno if buddy list is a good indicator, but i've interpreted it this way.
5. CR
in this period i've played mainly this team, so my CR is linked with the result of this team. i've made a major winning streak, i've reached 172,61 CR and been 16 on top coaches list: now i'm on 157, reached the star status after months i wasn't so low. what it means? nothing:D i really can't deserve the legend status, i'm not a pro coaches, but, for example, for one period my CR was higher than the one of Azure. it means CR is, sometimes, useless, a bluff. the autochallenge has teached me CR is less relevant that how it seems, i've faced people that with cr150 or so played really better than me and people with 166 or higher make really poor plays: Cr is really nothing more than a number.
6. people like to win easily.
i've noticed it after the growth of new gamefinder. i've played more than 30 games, i can face everyone. so i just say ok to all the games GF purpose to me and accept the 1st one that appears. my problem is the kind of games i've seen: 2000tv chaos vs 1500 bad skilled de for example is a game that i'd never play:) i've made more than 1 game of that kind that i haven't lived as a challenge, but as a game lost since the start. ok, you can have a lucky wiz, eldril in a great day, but that's not the point: some games are more or less impossible. and, if i know it, my oppo knows it too. so...why the offer? what's the point making games you know you'll win? it's so important win a game? why not take something more interesting? gf is full of games, why take the easier, or, worse, the one you KNOW that will be an happy walk trogh the field? i'd like to play games that i'd rarelly play in normal situations, and i've had really hard games with great coaches (that i've lost:P), but this thing that is happenin since new GF has been implemented makes me a bit...sad. when there was the old gf you could see the list of all the teams: the fact that there were so many teams between a 1500 tv team and a 2000 tv was a psycological wall, that has fallen now...and i hope that i'm wrong, but maybe someone abuse of it, people have now more courage offerin bad games. you'll tell me "people can refuse it", but that's not the point...why even offer games won before they start? it's not another complain about clawpombs, i've had cool games with em, i'm talkin in general.
Comments
Posted by bghandras on 2012-08-08 20:57:43
Yes, Delfs are awesome with Guard.
Posted by Sammler_der_Seelen on 2012-08-08 21:04:44
nice blog:)and +1 to point6
Posted by Qaz on 2012-08-08 21:44:15
Well I have not played in 6 months. But the reason that some chaos coaches will offer that match up and rejoice when they get it is
A. They can smash with out fear of getting there own team smashed and win in the process.
B they are building up for a major and need a power chaos team. Chaos works best for majors over 2000TV and they need to get there with out getting there team smashed hence they love playing any thing that will not make there own players go splash and they can get those SPPs and get the team major ready.
C Fumbble is a very competitive place and some will do what ever it takes to get a nice winning record.
D its incredible hard for killer chaos to get a game some will take any game they can get.
A. They can smash with out fear of getting there own team smashed and win in the process.
B they are building up for a major and need a power chaos team. Chaos works best for majors over 2000TV and they need to get there with out getting there team smashed hence they love playing any thing that will not make there own players go splash and they can get those SPPs and get the team major ready.
C Fumbble is a very competitive place and some will do what ever it takes to get a nice winning record.
D its incredible hard for killer chaos to get a game some will take any game they can get.
Posted by Macavity on 2012-08-08 22:05:25
I actually don't like to win easily, at least not if I feel it's un-deserved. I play seldom enough that if the match I get in is just newb stomping, it's a let-down.
Posted by licker on 2012-08-08 22:39:31
Very cool personal challenge there man. I agree with most all of your observations, especially on CR. CR is an entirely useless metric until you have someone who's played 100s (if not 1000s) of games and is at one end of the spectrum or the other. Pretty much you cannot use it for much between 140 and 160 (or beyond, depending...).
And yet... some coaches care far too much about their CR. It's strange I think. I care about my teams W/L records far more than I should, I don't care about my CR at all (that's probably not 100% true, but if I tell myself it enough I hope it becomes true).
I've noticed that when I put up my normal list of teams my WE and Skaven get challenged at least 10x more than my Nurgle or Dwarf (and neither team is particularly bashy for the TVs they are at, hell my skaven are probably more bashy than either). But that's not really so different from the old GF either. That is, I don't think the new GF has changed how much people pick, it's just made it slightly more obvious to people that picking is going on.
I wish they would add some filters to the lfg so that if you didn't want to play any +/- 300TV games (or whatever) you could stick that in there and remove some of the utterly ridiculous offers. I tend to simply deselect anything over ~200TV, because I'm not that interested in playing those kinds of games, I get enough in L.
And yet... some coaches care far too much about their CR. It's strange I think. I care about my teams W/L records far more than I should, I don't care about my CR at all (that's probably not 100% true, but if I tell myself it enough I hope it becomes true).
I've noticed that when I put up my normal list of teams my WE and Skaven get challenged at least 10x more than my Nurgle or Dwarf (and neither team is particularly bashy for the TVs they are at, hell my skaven are probably more bashy than either). But that's not really so different from the old GF either. That is, I don't think the new GF has changed how much people pick, it's just made it slightly more obvious to people that picking is going on.
I wish they would add some filters to the lfg so that if you didn't want to play any +/- 300TV games (or whatever) you could stick that in there and remove some of the utterly ridiculous offers. I tend to simply deselect anything over ~200TV, because I'm not that interested in playing those kinds of games, I get enough in L.
Posted by JigerJones on 2012-08-09 02:34:07
Dark elf is one of my favorite races. Glad to see you enjoying them in this fashion sir
Posted by hale on 2012-08-09 03:37:37
i think the reason some people offer games that they would've won before the game started is because their greatest enjoyment from the game is gaining spps and rolling skills, possibly WoW players or from a similar gaming background
Posted by licker on 2012-08-09 06:17:41
Too a degree I would imagine the picking is partially TV related. If you are trying to build a team to 2000 (or whatever) then until you get it built there there may be more picking.
Once teams are 'established' (whatever that means) there may be less picking.
Some picking is always going to happen though, zons are not playing dwarves lightly, nor other elf teams playing teams with multiple tacklePOMB.
Still, I've found the new lfg getting me more games more quickly than the old one, even if it's mostly my AG teams that get the matches.
Once teams are 'established' (whatever that means) there may be less picking.
Some picking is always going to happen though, zons are not playing dwarves lightly, nor other elf teams playing teams with multiple tacklePOMB.
Still, I've found the new lfg getting me more games more quickly than the old one, even if it's mostly my AG teams that get the matches.
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-08-09 11:56:29
Autochallenge?
If you want to play a lot play in the Box, there you can find REAL challenging matches for your DE.
If you want to play a lot play in the Box, there you can find REAL challenging matches for your DE.
Posted by the_Sage on 2012-08-09 13:21:26
The biggest issue is that the new gf doesn't distinguish between challenging and accepting. When seeing the new system I actually thought of your team and how it doesn't work anymore.
If I were TV 2000 chaos I'd never propose a game vs TV 1500 delves. However, if TV 1500 delves offered me a game I'd probably take it. That distinction is lost on the new lfg: you say 'I'd accept this game'. Your autochallenge used to only accept when challenged, but now it accepts whenever the opponent would accept a challenge. That's a world of difference.
If I were TV 2000 chaos I'd never propose a game vs TV 1500 delves. However, if TV 1500 delves offered me a game I'd probably take it. That distinction is lost on the new lfg: you say 'I'd accept this game'. Your autochallenge used to only accept when challenged, but now it accepts whenever the opponent would accept a challenge. That's a world of difference.
Posted by dode74 on 2012-08-09 14:04:47
Easy enough to overcome, the_Sage. Tick all those you wish to challenge, and if an unchallenged opponent comes up in green while you are waiting then you can accept.
Posted by bassista on 2012-08-09 15:37:32
@ sammler: thanks:)
@ quaz: think all of em:)
@ mattadakka: you miss the point, i know there are de in the box, but the spirit of the team is to be challenged, and to accept every challenge offered, not simply to wait the system to give me an automatic game...my oppo must decide to play with me:) it isn't the same...
@ the sage: i think you're right, it's a real big problem for my team, but don't know what to do at this point, i hadn't seen in this light: what to do now, any suggestion? or i'd have just to go on this way?
@dode: nope, i'd miss the spirit of the challenge...i used to accept the 1st game offered, i have never chosed among all the offers...if i'd do the way you suggest what to do if i see more than a green square? i'd have to chose...the solution would be to remain every sec on gamefinder and select the 1st green square i ee, but i don't wanna do something like it, i haven't enough patience:D
@ quaz: think all of em:)
@ mattadakka: you miss the point, i know there are de in the box, but the spirit of the team is to be challenged, and to accept every challenge offered, not simply to wait the system to give me an automatic game...my oppo must decide to play with me:) it isn't the same...
@ the sage: i think you're right, it's a real big problem for my team, but don't know what to do at this point, i hadn't seen in this light: what to do now, any suggestion? or i'd have just to go on this way?
@dode: nope, i'd miss the spirit of the challenge...i used to accept the 1st game offered, i have never chosed among all the offers...if i'd do the way you suggest what to do if i see more than a green square? i'd have to chose...the solution would be to remain every sec on gamefinder and select the 1st green square i ee, but i don't wanna do something like it, i haven't enough patience:D
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-08-09 20:58:22
And what's the point in playing in Ranked, infested by farmed team, cherry pickers and noobs?
You proved that by saying this: "i've noticed it after the growth of new gamefinder. i've played more than 30 games, i can face everyone. so i just say ok to all the games GF purpose to me and accept the 1st one that appears. my problem is the kind of games i've seen: 2000tv chaos vs 1500 bad skilled de for example is a game that i'd never play:) i've made more than 1 game of that kind that i haven't lived as a challenge, but as a game lost since the start. ok, you can have a lucky wiz, eldril in a great day, but that's not the point: some games are more or less impossible. and, if i know it, my oppo knows it too. so...why the offer? what's the point making games you know you'll win? it's so important win a game? why not take something more interesting?"
If you know that people in R is going to offer unfair matches, why are you surprised by that?
Play in B, at least your opponent can't cherry pick your 1500 DE team with a 2000 Chaos team.
Play Box, that's the real autochallenge.
:-D
You proved that by saying this: "i've noticed it after the growth of new gamefinder. i've played more than 30 games, i can face everyone. so i just say ok to all the games GF purpose to me and accept the 1st one that appears. my problem is the kind of games i've seen: 2000tv chaos vs 1500 bad skilled de for example is a game that i'd never play:) i've made more than 1 game of that kind that i haven't lived as a challenge, but as a game lost since the start. ok, you can have a lucky wiz, eldril in a great day, but that's not the point: some games are more or less impossible. and, if i know it, my oppo knows it too. so...why the offer? what's the point making games you know you'll win? it's so important win a game? why not take something more interesting?"
If you know that people in R is going to offer unfair matches, why are you surprised by that?
Play in B, at least your opponent can't cherry pick your 1500 DE team with a 2000 Chaos team.
Play Box, that's the real autochallenge.
:-D
Posted by koadah on 2012-08-09 21:15:57
Picking is dead! It's a known fact.
Posted by the_Sage on 2012-08-09 21:17:58
I guess setting yourself a TV range would help. With the abolishment of the +/- 10% rule, things get silly too quickly.
Posted by koadah on 2012-08-09 21:22:39
Nonsense. That's part of the challenge. ;)
Posted by dode74 on 2012-08-09 22:25:27
Games with large TV differences are a lot of fun, though. I've had a great time when playing down a few hundred TV. The latest was my 1630 Necro vs 2430 Orcs. I took wizard, Count, bribe, Igor and a babe and won 2-1 after a really fun, and different, match. CRP suggests that challenges are the way to go (League Challenges, page 31), and the addition of formal challenges (with the 3 options - accept/decline/substitute) could be interesting to see.