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policeshades
Last seen 1 year ago
policeshades (27942)
Overall
Super Star
Overall
Record
63/26/25
Win Percentage
67%
Archive
2022-05-20 13:43:42
3 votes, rating 6
Competitiveness, picking and self-esteem
I was inspired by Java's recent post to write something about [C] Division, competitiveness, picking and self-esteem. It's a personal view and series of musings rather than an attempt to make a point. Think of it more as a thought-provoker than a position piece.

The tl;dr version is: I think some people, myself included, gain some sense of self-esteem from CR and it is more convenient to ignore the lack of logic in beating people you've picked to obtain CR.

It's probably worth setting out my opinion of my own playing ability first off since this is ostensibly a blog post about self-esteem. I am worse than my current CR would suggest, nowhere near in the top 20 coaches on this site. On the other hand, I am a decent Blood Bowl player with the tendency to make errors that cost me games against good opponents, especially when I am not using all my brain power on the game (e.g. tired, trying to do other things at the same time, etc.). The standard "I'm better than average" opinion.

That said, I have relatively low self-esteem. This is in general life as well as on this site. I say things IRL that are boastful to make myself feel good: "Did you know this isn't even my best race?" said to a friend in my local league. What a dick right?

I also, like many people, want to be liked so should probably shut up about me...

As Java said, CR is not a very accurate measure of a coach's ability. When Malmir is ranked below someone on the site, we know the CR difference is likely not reflective of the ability difference, especially if he's dropped to Super Star. Therefore it is objectively meaningless to try to obtain it, especially through the most efficient way of doing so: picking.

Picking people to gain CR efficiently and picking people to win are slightly different. To be most efficient, you would either only offer or accept games against people ranked lower than you but not by too much (one band e.g. Star for Super Stars) and playing a race that is usually at a disadvantage against yours (e.g. low TV Chaos Chosen against Tier 1 teams) with a small TV difference. Picking to win is accepting/making offers against much lower ranked coaches and usually taking any TV advantage you can or overdogging to the max while taking any hard counter matches you can (e.g. Amazons as Dwarves).

Picking people simply to win shouldn't result in any boost to self-esteem in theory because it's the expected result and presumably it won't be much of a challenge/effort. There should be little reward for little effort. And even in CR, there is only a little reward, but it is still a reward and does still allow players to climb rankings, in turn boosting self-esteem if they ignore the lack of meaning to that CR ranking.

My theory is that some people are content to pick (actively or by selective acceptance of offers) because they are able to willfully ignore the lack of meaning to CR gains that they achieve and take those gains to represent something good about themselves. This applies to me to an extent. It's obviously not binary: pickers vs non-pickers, but a scale. Based on Java's post, I can admit to myself that I pick using his definition of it.

Now I want to see if I can "have fun" and still feel good about myself when I lose CR.
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Comments
Posted by koadah on 2022-05-20 14:19:17
I'll be disappointed the my rank hits "Rookie". "Super Star" has a certain respectability to it. ;)
Posted by Azur on 2022-05-20 17:25:45
Nice post, Policeshades.

And I agree with Java and you : I'm CR 14.... So I'm offcially a better coch than guys like Malmir.
Sure.
Lol.

CR is a weird animal.....
Imagine a tennis world where your ATP ranking would be more important than winning Roland Garros.
More than that, imagine a tennis world where your ATP ranking would have NOTHING to do with the tournments you win!
Quite crazy, huh?
But it's the way CR currently works.

IMHO, CR should be based on our ranking within meaningful leagues/tournaments.
And not on our Black box/Competive results.
Those environments should be for training and fun only.

Anyway, like IRL : as you long as you hurt no one, have fun the way you want:)


Posted by Azur on 2022-05-20 17:32:44
*"coach", not "coch".
Posted by policeshades on 2022-05-20 18:04:38
Thanks Azur. I like the "as long as you hurt no one" stuff. I was thinking about it more and wondered if in some cases, the winner has to hurt the loser:

- both players are playing to get CR for their self-esteem
- it's a tournament and both players care
- another situation like those

Or I guess I am being too wide with my definition of 'hurt'?
Posted by DrClaes on 2022-05-20 18:30:21
Azur: I think it's spelled with two o's.

Also good post Police!
Posted by PainState on 2022-05-20 18:33:25
I have obviously missed this aspect to the Game Finder. The Buccaneers dont turn down orc/dwarf/lizardman matches. In retrospect that was suboptimal picking on my part. Yet, I do not care about CR, I care about playing a game and if I win in spectacular fashion on the better.

FYI for human teams to take on orc/dwarf/lizards you are basically just admitting Iam the heavy underdog and just want to play, CR be damned.

SO, my final thought is we have to admit every coach, as and individual on the site, has his/her own goals/wants and desires. "We" cannot pigeon hole what "picking" really is with a single sentence defintion.

What does this all mean.....dont ask me man, Iam a clueless cherry just wanting to play games with my human team.
Posted by Storr on 2022-05-20 18:44:02
Come and join the rrr. But don't you dare taking Griff and Morg!
Posted by mekutata on 2022-05-20 18:46:35
CR should not bbe based on winning trophies. IT's less related to ATP rankings than to chess elo ranking. Thing is, in chess no one plays with 16 pawns while we have Blood Bowl teams of varying strength. It's mostly a joke.
But anyway, the GR (Goblin Rating) is a bit more precise, as it based on a league with no picking. Meanwhile with CR you have "legend" gits who are too afraid to play against STunties "cause they could hurt their players".
Posted by Java on 2022-05-20 22:04:06
Thanks for the shoutout and for the perspective. I didn't bring self-esteem into it, because I didn't want to delve into the most instrospective aspects of the game, but your analysis of it probably fills that gap very well.

Things to ponder, really.
Posted by policeshades on 2022-05-21 22:24:47
@Storr - finding it hard to get time for games so can't commit even to that but it is tempting!

@mekutata - I'm not really familiar with ELO nor GR. I'll have to have a look.

@Java - Thanks for the inspiration and glad you feel the blog complements yours.