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2010-02-10 16:13:57
43 votes, rating 4
43 votes, rating 4
Revised Concession Guidelines
After some discussion with the Big Boss I have decided to relax abit on the guidelines I use for judging whats an illegal concession and what is not:
Concession guidelines
I run into quite a few illegal concessions, I think some of these are due to missunderstanding. Now I have a guide to go after which roughly looks like this:
Turn:
1-2: definitely unacceptable
3-4: mostly unacceptable - check other conditions too
5-12: check other conditions
13-14: mostly unacceptable - check other conditions too
15-16: definitely unacceptable
Number of players available to field at kickoff (including KOs):
3+ player disadvantage -> okay
TDs:
0-3+ -> okay (i.e. pretty much will never happen)
Cas:
2+ perms -> okay
Anything else - almost certainly unacceptable.
Now these are not set in stone and there are exception for every case. I would certeanly urge you to ask an admin before concedeing. But this is pretty much what I go after in general. Now you know: hopefully this will lead to less accidental illegal concessions
Concession guidelines
I run into quite a few illegal concessions, I think some of these are due to missunderstanding. Now I have a guide to go after which roughly looks like this:
Turn:
1-2: definitely unacceptable
3-4: mostly unacceptable - check other conditions too
5-12: check other conditions
13-14: mostly unacceptable - check other conditions too
15-16: definitely unacceptable
Number of players available to field at kickoff (including KOs):
3+ player disadvantage -> okay
TDs:
0-3+ -> okay (i.e. pretty much will never happen)
Cas:
2+ perms -> okay
Anything else - almost certainly unacceptable.
Now these are not set in stone and there are exception for every case. I would certeanly urge you to ask an admin before concedeing. But this is pretty much what I go after in general. Now you know: hopefully this will lead to less accidental illegal concessions
Comments
Posted by Frankenstein on 2010-02-10 16:21:30
Does this mean that you can concede with 2 or more perms and/or being down 3 players? If so, that might save much totally wasted life-time indeed!
Posted by blader4411 on 2010-02-10 16:30:40
Looks good, but which divisions are these for?
While RL reasons are (almost) always valid concession reasons, for the pixel-hugging aspect this looks alright for [R] and [L], but I don't think it too appropriate for [B]lackbox, given it's nature.
-Blader
While RL reasons are (almost) always valid concession reasons, for the pixel-hugging aspect this looks alright for [R] and [L], but I don't think it too appropriate for [B]lackbox, given it's nature.
-Blader
Posted by Nantti on 2010-02-10 16:54:56
Thank you for the clarification.
All decisions "to relax a bit" on concession guidelines get my vote. (Unless the concessions are clearly fixed ofc.)
All decisions "to relax a bit" on concession guidelines get my vote. (Unless the concessions are clearly fixed ofc.)
Posted by maysrill on 2010-02-10 17:42:16
I've never been terribly opposed to concessions. It's wimping out and all, but it only hurts the player doing it, and it's illegal in situations where it's clearly done to help the winner and in all tournaments.
If I just smashed someone's skull in and he has no hope in the game, I don't mind him saving himself the pain and boredom of sitting through a half hour more of watching his team be slaughtered.
If I roughed them up in the first half, burned their apo, and start the second half by getting the ref, go ahead and give me the win.
If I just smashed someone's skull in and he has no hope in the game, I don't mind him saving himself the pain and boredom of sitting through a half hour more of watching his team be slaughtered.
If I roughed them up in the first half, burned their apo, and start the second half by getting the ref, go ahead and give me the win.
Posted by Melmoth on 2010-02-10 18:58:11
conceding is for Whimps
Posted by Shraaaag on 2010-02-10 19:43:17
Luckily I haven't been victim of concessions very often, however I can see the annoyance factor of feeling cheated of a fun game, or wasted time. At least someone clicking 'conceed' is alot better than someone ragequitting, or leaving without saying anything.
But I do agree, people who conceed at the slightest bad luck, are whimps.
But I do agree, people who conceed at the slightest bad luck, are whimps.
Posted by JellyBelly on 2010-02-10 20:09:21
Hmm ... one question (that Frankenstein hinted at) - do ALL of the conditions have to be satisfied to warrant a concession, or is just 1 or 2 of those ok?
I have never conceeded myself, but I have had people conceed on me a couple of times in the last few weeks, both of which I felt were unwarranted. In this situation I don't generally argue about it too much, because the game is supposed to be fun, and I don't really see the point in forcing someone to carry on with a game when they really don't want to. But, should I be firmer with these people and tell them that it's against the rules to conceed just because you're not getting the dice you want? Should I be reporting them to the admins?
Also, are the above general site guidelines, or are they your personal interpretation, which may vary between admins? Wasn't entirely clear on that.
Thx, Jelly
I have never conceeded myself, but I have had people conceed on me a couple of times in the last few weeks, both of which I felt were unwarranted. In this situation I don't generally argue about it too much, because the game is supposed to be fun, and I don't really see the point in forcing someone to carry on with a game when they really don't want to. But, should I be firmer with these people and tell them that it's against the rules to conceed just because you're not getting the dice you want? Should I be reporting them to the admins?
Also, are the above general site guidelines, or are they your personal interpretation, which may vary between admins? Wasn't entirely clear on that.
Thx, Jelly
Posted by Nantti on 2010-02-10 20:28:47
@ Shraag
Do you see how it might not be fun for your opponent to watch you farm spps for 40 mins instead of just conceding and starting a new game?
That's what bugs me the most is that people try to force their own views of how the game should be played on others. When I play, I hope it's fun for both, if my opponent is taking hits and is not having fun, I have no problem with his concession. Nor there's no problem for me conceding and getting called a wimp if it gives me the chance to start a new game and fight for a win again.
Concessions are already clearly illegal in tournaments and in preagreed matches that shouldn't have started in the first place. Other than that, I don't see much harm in conceding if you've given the game a fair shot and you're in a position where you can't play for a win or even a draw.
Do you see how it might not be fun for your opponent to watch you farm spps for 40 mins instead of just conceding and starting a new game?
That's what bugs me the most is that people try to force their own views of how the game should be played on others. When I play, I hope it's fun for both, if my opponent is taking hits and is not having fun, I have no problem with his concession. Nor there's no problem for me conceding and getting called a wimp if it gives me the chance to start a new game and fight for a win again.
Concessions are already clearly illegal in tournaments and in preagreed matches that shouldn't have started in the first place. Other than that, I don't see much harm in conceding if you've given the game a fair shot and you're in a position where you can't play for a win or even a draw.
Posted by treborius on 2010-02-10 22:08:14
i agree with what most coaches have said here, already.
i might even go further: why would fumbbl restrain concessions even further than the original rules - i don't think it's happening all that often and (apart from tourneys) it mainly hurts the conceding coach. in case of developed teams you even risk loosing ur best players and if not u still loose winnings and ff.
the winning coach gets a 2nd mvp, which makes up for the lost opportunity to farm spp at least a bit and allows the winner to get in another game even sooner.
that said, i also don't understand the notion of blackbox being a division where concession-rules should be (even) stricter - to me it's just my favorite division where i have the best chances of quickly finding a decent random match-up w/o risking my team being cherry-picked by my opponent or w/o risking to be the cherry-picker.
if people think they can "dodge" undesired match-ups by conceding they'll not be able to build any strong team if they do it all too often.
the occasional concession, mostly because coaches fear for their team-development after loosing 2 or more of their better players is ok in my book - the price is high, already.
i might even go further: why would fumbbl restrain concessions even further than the original rules - i don't think it's happening all that often and (apart from tourneys) it mainly hurts the conceding coach. in case of developed teams you even risk loosing ur best players and if not u still loose winnings and ff.
the winning coach gets a 2nd mvp, which makes up for the lost opportunity to farm spp at least a bit and allows the winner to get in another game even sooner.
that said, i also don't understand the notion of blackbox being a division where concession-rules should be (even) stricter - to me it's just my favorite division where i have the best chances of quickly finding a decent random match-up w/o risking my team being cherry-picked by my opponent or w/o risking to be the cherry-picker.
if people think they can "dodge" undesired match-ups by conceding they'll not be able to build any strong team if they do it all too often.
the occasional concession, mostly because coaches fear for their team-development after loosing 2 or more of their better players is ok in my book - the price is high, already.
Posted by Calcium on 2010-02-10 22:57:38
the player advantage ruling is intresting. I have on more than a few occasions been down to 7-8 humans in the box against full strength teams (12+). Does this mean I can conceed before the match starts?
AS ever, my cynical view of these 'rules' is the manner in which they are enforced. Which frankly imo all over the place with no consistency at all. Regardless of my opinon of the concession rules, not conceeding is always the best option for sure.
AS ever, my cynical view of these 'rules' is the manner in which they are enforced. Which frankly imo all over the place with no consistency at all. Regardless of my opinon of the concession rules, not conceeding is always the best option for sure.
Posted by Britnoth on 2010-02-11 01:05:54
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=2446847
;)
;)
Posted by Snappy_Dresser on 2010-02-11 05:12:07
Really? This is really what you're worrying about?
Posted by Zombie69 on 2010-02-12 00:28:14
Wow Britnoth, that's gold. BiggieB breaks his own rules!
Posted by skeletor on 2010-02-12 03:29:07
I really don´t understand these rules about consession. I can do it whenever i feel like it.
Admins have no way too know how my RL situration was when i left.
I know that admins can look at how many times you have left due too RL problems, but you can be wery unlucky and have to leave tree times whitin a short period.
I allmost newer concede, and i don´t have any problems by keeping whitin the rules, but i just don´t really see the point.
And i have too agree whit Calcium. If you can concede by being down 3 players, the WE teams can concede half there games. A we team playing vs Dwarf will often win ewen if they are down 3 players.
Admins have no way too know how my RL situration was when i left.
I know that admins can look at how many times you have left due too RL problems, but you can be wery unlucky and have to leave tree times whitin a short period.
I allmost newer concede, and i don´t have any problems by keeping whitin the rules, but i just don´t really see the point.
And i have too agree whit Calcium. If you can concede by being down 3 players, the WE teams can concede half there games. A we team playing vs Dwarf will often win ewen if they are down 3 players.
Posted by Calcium on 2010-02-14 23:52:08
On reflection, these guidelines are a total joke. These guidelines apply depending on what your coach name is. The most pathetic thing is these 'guidelines' are enforced in this manner. Rules need to be consistent. You yourself Biggie retired one of my humans teams in a heartbeat after I 'illegally' conceeded, despite my asking you not to/apologising. Of all the tickets I have submitted when coaches have illegally conceeded against me as laid out in YOUR guidelines not 1 has been punished in the same way. And you wonder why I think it's personal?