Posted by Calthor on 2014-06-23 14:20:10

Mighty Blow, Piling On and random chance will do such things every now and then.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-06-23 14:20:35

Not surprising at all. You got picked son!

Posted by Cloggy on 2014-06-23 14:23:23

Today's lesson: Never, ever, EVER play a game against Yuzi again. He is by far the worst example of a cherrypicker on the site. The sad thing is, he can't win a game without picking like this. Just have pity on the guy and let him gather dust in gamefinder from now on.

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 14:24:07

Yeah, but 13 CAS and no KO!?

Is that really possible?? This chance is faaar too low....

I realized that he had a few ClawPOMBs and it really sucked, but still I can't believe it...

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 14:25:43

@Cloggy: so Yuzi is already kinda notorious here?


Hadn't had a match for months here on FUMBBL, I just thought about starting again, but this was a serious blow :/

Posted by the_Sage on 2014-06-23 14:32:10

Not KINDA notorious. I couldn't think of anyone worse. He only plays teams that have hard bash and are obviously broken in some matchups (amazons, cdorfs), then only plays against weaker coaches in those exact broken matchups.

I'll pick my games too, in the sense that I don't go looking for claws with my orcs, or for dorfs with my flings, but I also like balanced games (clawpomb vs clawpomb, elf vs elf, orc/dorf, etc) that are tough, and against good coaches. Yuzi.... not so much. =(

Posted by MattDakka on 2014-06-23 14:34:15

Just play in Black Box, where true mens are.
Ranked is a jungle, cherrypick or be cherrypicked!

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 14:43:00

Never tried Black Box....what's so fancy about BBox?
Mhh, thinking about stopping that "Ranked" stuff....of course I don't like being picked...
But cherrypicking on my own is not that great, either...I too would like to play balanced matches vs good coaches. I don't know if matchfinder is the right solution then...

This match was definitely broken :/

Posted by Cloggy on 2014-06-23 14:50:22

Nothing is fancier in Blackbox. Same game, same site and an equal amount of douchebags. If you switch to [B]ox to avoid Yuzi and run into KenThis or Smallman you will find much the same outcome :)

At least in [R]anked, once you have learned this lesson you have the choice not to repeat the experience.

Posted by Chainsaw on 2014-06-23 14:53:36

I don't think Yuzi ever accepted a challenge.

He's the smallman of ranked. Steer clear.

As for the heavy dice; it happens sometimes. Yes, the chance is small that you won't get a KO and all casualties - but consider how many games are played on the site, it will happen from time to time and you were just unlucky that it happened to you.

Posted by Chainsaw on 2014-06-23 14:56:31

Also it was 12 casualties. You didn't use your 2nd apo.

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 15:02:47

Okay, thanks for advice, guys....

Seems that I had pretty bad luck with these dices....I'll watch out the next time in ranked and now I know which coaches I should avoid ;)

But is there another possibility to start matches beside "Matchfinder"?

Posted by bghandras on 2014-06-23 15:03:09

What box is good for is to build a team you want, also picking the "hated" skills, and still get a game. Whereas in ranked you get less games if you use the killstack, even if you use sparingly. (Like on 1 player only who is dedicated blitzer.)
Blackbox has its pitfalls too. So I personally would recommend to use the best of both worlds:
- Try ranked, if you got a fair game, then so be it, accept.
- If you cant find that game in ranked, then go and activate in the box. I would personally recommend to play blackbox at low TV, as those games are expected to be fair, whereas high TV teams have the chance to run into really mean. (Which spiced with crazy dice may result in team devastation.)

Posted by Badoek on 2014-06-23 15:14:48

You don't have to use the gamefinder, you could try chat or PMs or whatever and arrange a game that way. Gamefinder is good enough though, but does require some self-control by not picking (too badly/often). Protect the newbs!

Posted by WhatBall on 2014-06-23 15:17:17

This is the kind of team that only exists in Ranked because people accept games from them. Stop accepting games from these box-built™ teams.

Posted by Scaramanga on 2014-06-23 15:25:03

Another example of new player picking. Some dont stay and leave fumbbl after a game like this against a coach like that.

Maybe it's time to kick some ass.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-06-23 15:25:15

box built is fine, but playing vs these teams 160 down without anyway to beat them or survive is what is bad.

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 15:28:20

Thanks guys!

I'll watch out from now on...just didn't excepted 2 legend ClawPOMBers in a 1400k-Team. Made that experience, gonna take a look on these guys I'm facing from now on ;)

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 15:31:34

@Jimmy...yeah but how do you survive vs ClawPOMBers?? Claw ---> 8+ beats armour...even if you put in a 10AV-Dorf

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-06-23 15:39:44

Outstrengthing them, guardlocking them, fouling them, frenzy trapping them, dodging away and limiting their blitzes. Bascially your team was capable of none of these, but if your team was 1400 (and not humans maybe) you should have developed one of these counters.

Posted by Balle2000 on 2014-06-23 15:39:47

peace man

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-06-23 15:52:32

Oh and of course pomb/c-pomb of your own.

Posted by pythrr on 2014-06-23 15:58:19

Jesus. You got horribly noob oicked by a filthy min max R Cd team. Why did you agree to such an abortion of a matchup?

Posted by CaptainAwesome on 2014-06-23 16:04:20

I'll keep that in mind then and try to build a team able to withstand C-pomb (at least a bit ;)

@pythrr: I just accepted the first challenge incoming...didn't knew that I had been picked that hard....I made that experience here for now, next time I'll just watch out...didn't knew that this opposing team could be that broken...

Posted by cyric612 on 2014-06-23 16:29:32

Another option is to look for a decent league

Posted by the_Sage on 2014-06-23 16:54:36

Beat claw with zons or woodies.
Beat po with fend, positioning, bodies, skill, or dirty player.
Beat people like Yuzi with a 10 lbs lead pipe.

Posted by garyt1 on 2014-06-23 17:19:44

It's past time that the admins or even Christers tried to discourage such extreme picking, it is after all against site rules.
More likely there will instead be complaints about naming and shaming.

Posted by koadah on 2014-06-23 17:24:18

Another option is...

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=3180


:D

Posted by BillBrasky on 2014-06-23 17:30:54

Devil's Advocate:

I played that guy, just now in the box.

The game was fun.

My only complaint was that he was silent.

He did clear the pitch, but I enjoy that kind of thing.

Posted by WhatBall on 2014-06-23 17:43:24

Silent opponents are the worst...

Posted by MattDakka on 2014-06-23 17:44:37

@CaptainAwesome"Never tried Black Box....what's so fancy about BBox?
Mhh, thinking about stopping that "Ranked" stuff....of course I don't like being picked...
But cherrypicking on my own is not that great, either...I too would like to play balanced matches vs good coaches. I don't know if matchfinder is the right solution then...

This match was definitely broken :/"
What's so fancy about Black Box?
Well, Blood Bowl has a mechanic roughly similar to scissors-paper-rock: hybrid-agile-bash.
In Ranked (it's human nature) coaches tend either to avoid the bad match ups (for example Amazons-Dwarfs or Clawpomb team-AV 9 team) or having a good match up and this create a broken balance and monster teams of unnatural high TV Amazons who never faced Dwarfs and didn't suffer the right amount of attrition, or Orcs who never met a clawpomb heavy team, this is a negative thing for how Blood Bowl is designed.
You generally struggle to have a decent match up and you have to be ever careful about the offers you receive.
Sometimes you won't be able to play a team because the coaches on gamefinder don't like to play vs such team (generally a bash team or a hybrid team bash-oriented).
In Black Box you sometimes will have a bad match up, sometimes a good match up, sometimes a normal match up, but the blind match up is generally fairer than Ranked because your team can't be dodged.
At low-mid TV in Black Box there is a decent degree of variety, at high TV you are likely to face a clawpomb-spam team, but that's not a problem if you learn how to play against it, and you can't learn how to play against it if you never face it.
Clawpomb is boring but don't blame the clawpomb spammers, blame the Blood Bowl designers who, as the clueless people they are, gave the clawpomb-team trimming duty only to certain races (in LRB4 we had ageing, clawpomb is the CRP in-game version of ageing, a off-game mechanic which was never much loved by coaches).
In LRB4, on the other hand, you would have faced a lot of Dwarfs and Orcs instead of clawpomb teams.


@Cloggy: Nothing is fancier in Blackbox. Same game, same site and an equal amount of douchebags. If you switch to [B]ox to avoid Yuzi and run into KenThis or Smallman you will find much the same outcome :)

At least in [R]anked, once you have learned this lesson you have the choice not to repeat the experience."
Same game, same site, very different attitude.
I used to play in Ranked, it was mostly a matter of avoiding being cherrypicked/accept being cherrypicked and I couldn't play starting orcs, chaos dwarfs or dwarfs because coaches kept on challenging my high elves. Not a big issue, but playing only soft teams vs bash teams it's boring after a while, not to mention having to check out every offer I received, a lot of time wasted, moreover, when I saw a uber pimped Amazon team never playing vs Dwarfs I got very disgusted (I can't name and shame but you can guess their coach's name easily).
About Kenthis, Jimmy, Brasky playing clawpomb in the Box: never had any personal issue with them, they love to play clawpomb teams, but this doesn't make them douchebags. I personally find clawpomb dull and boring after a while, but people must have the freedom to play whatever they want, we should blame the ruleset and the game designers, instead.
They can have 4 or 5 clawpombers in a team, sure, but at least they built them without cherrypicking, facing any team they got scheduled with.

By the way, Endzone (currently #1 coach) plays only in Black Box, he doesn't like picking or being picked, according to his bio.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2014-06-23 18:47:42

*Awesome blog!
*Your opponent isn't breaking any site rules.....well not in picking games like this.
*If it were my site I'd perma ban him anyway.
*You know who his real life best friend is.....right?
*He used to have a CR in the 130/140s in lrb4, before he learnt his little art.
*He plays a lot of blackbox too.

Posted by NerdBird on 2014-06-23 18:49:13

"I personally find clawpomb dull and boring after a while, but people must have the freedom to play whatever they want, we should blame the ruleset and the game designers, instead."

With most games when a rule set is broken, the designers or company quickly release a FAQ or a patch to correct the issue. BB is a game that is not currently being supported by anyone so everyone is slow to make a correction and stick with the "official" rules set. So when a player that is knowledgeable of the game is still spamming the broken rules, yes, we can blame them for using it. The big question is, when will kill-stack be fixed and will it ever be changed?

I don't think anyone is refuting the fact that Claw Pomb WINS a coach a lot of games if spammed on a team, because it doesn't necessarily, but it does hinder a teams chances of progression. When it takes a lot of teams 10 games to recover from one silly match-up, the fun in the team is drained and unless you are hellbent on keeping it, you just make a new one. I don't think this is in the best spirit of the game.

Posted by keggiemckill on 2014-06-23 20:02:38

I thought this blog was going to be more serious than it has turned out to be. :(

Posted by Endzone on 2014-06-23 20:06:49

I don't play in ranked because I don't like picking or being picked, however I appreciate that many coaches prefer Ranked precisely because you can choose not to play matches like this! Key lesson here is not to accept horrific match ups like this in Ranked!

Posted by MattDakka on 2014-06-23 20:46:19

To fix a broken rule we must first statistically demonstrate that it's a broken rule (broken for winning? for excessive attrition?), until that only the league commissioner (Christer in our case) can apply house rules, you can't blame a guy for playing with the official rules, they can be broken but for now they are official and FUMBBL-approved.
Since that clawpomb is a popular (and unpopular :D) way of playing, nerfing it would probably reduce FUMBBL's userbase.
Anyway, Blood Bowl is not a MMORPG about team building, players are not eternal and this is good thing, otherwise we would see unnatural teams after a while, the main goal of Blood Bowl is winning a match, building a team is a byproduct of the matches.
The main problem of clawpomb in my opinion is that it reduces drastically the variety of teams you are going to face at high TV, playing vs a clawpomb team is fine, playing vs 10 clawpomb teams is boring, as it would playing vs elves only, dwarfs only and so on.
Well, in my opinion rebuilding a team it's a challenge in itself and I take it as part of the game, stay with your team in the good and the bad moments.
While in LRB4 you struggled to keep an agile/fragile team up and running, in CRP we have journeymen, so not's a big deal really.
Playing consistently with a perfectly tuned team is boring in my book.

Posted by xnoelx on 2014-06-24 02:14:42

@ harvestmouse: he's not breaking any rules? I'm not saying it's definite, that's not my call, but surely there's at least an argument that he's in breach of the "Coaches are expected to play reasonably balanced games." rule?

Posted by JackassRampant on 2014-06-24 04:32:44

Don't sweat the pickers. Learn how to identify and avoid them, and after awhile you'll rise to the level where they avoid [i]you[/i]. Yuzi won't play me… and that's okay.

Posted by koadah on 2014-06-24 06:49:20

Oh come on xnoelx. The 'balanced game' thing is clearly referring to TR only.

It appears that you can bend over as many rookies as you like when building your team for a Major.

Icesmooth even posted a blog bragging about it.

I assume that rookies are usually the only ones who will accept their one sided matchups. I wonder how many quit after being hammered by these guys.

I suppose it is not naming & shaming if it is al perfectly legal. So who else is on the worst picker list?

Posted by Badoek on 2014-06-24 08:05:18

Good question, we should add those names to the help section :o

@MattDakka: I don't mind blaming the guy who plays by the official rules if there's a consensus on those rules being somewhat broken. As has been said before, in real life playing like that will soon leave you game-less.

Jimmy's quote: "Outstrengthing them, guardlocking them, fouling them, frenzy trapping them, dodging away and limiting their blitzes. Bascially your team was capable of none of these, but if your team was 1400 (and not humans maybe) you should have developed one of these counters."

Good suggestion but most of these things are hard to achieve for new players.

Posted by Endzone on 2014-06-24 08:47:17

IMO there is no real counter to clawpomb. All of Jimmy's suggestions are valid and in the hands of more experienced coaches can contribute towards limiting the damage but rarely can you have the theoretical advantage with these approaches. e.g. http://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3574427

The only real counter is to avoid the match ups e.g.:
a) In Ranked decline clawpomb match offers
b) In Blackbox tend towards playing lower TV teams (The new scheduler gives more protection to new teams than before)
c) Choose a suitable League or play in Stuntie

Other options for taking clawpomb on include:
d) Fire with fire - play clawpomb yourself (and become part of the problem)
e) Join the crusade - check out the human premiership stuff (great fluff) and anti-clawpomb builds (but beware this is more about an ideal than providing an equal counter)
f) Run circles around them - claw has no advantage against AV7! Woodelves can be fun, but beware AV9 teams will be even more dangerous to you than clawpomb!

Posted by albinv on 2014-06-28 23:20:49

mehehe excellent pick - assasins work.;)