Posted by MattDakka on 2016-08-17 14:08:55

In my opinion you should aim for TV 1500, over that finding clawpomb spam teams gets very likely.

Posted by thoralf on 2016-08-17 14:58:01

On the empirical side, check out League teams that have matured.

On the theorical side, fill this form with everything you'd fancy for a team:

http://www.calculateyour.tv/#/rosters

Matt's point only applies to B, but then according to Matt there's only B, so it's not really a constraint ;-)

Posted by harvestmouse on 2016-08-17 14:58:33

" I am not interested in ............optimal TV though" Doesn't this contradict your question? As does Matt's answer.

Posted by Balle2000 on 2016-08-17 15:10:38

I am interested in your first paragraph, where you express a certain lack of understanding of 2000+ TV teams, so I wanted to give a reply to that.

To me, player development and history is what's fascinating about Blood Bowl. If I could, I would have 16 legend players all having played 500 games each. Would this be bloated? Yes. But I'm not too fuzzed about that. As a team develops I try to keep a certain track of bloat, but will often keep a bloated player, rather than retire him.

Deciding what TV to arrive at is therefore an alien thought to me, its tackling the different developments along the way that's interesting. I want all my teams to pass 100 games, and think its not very stimulating to play below 1400 TV, and therefore its also a chore starting out a new team. Not long ago I played 68 games in a row at over 2000 TW with a Human team in Blackbox. That was such a great gaming experience. To be honest, it surprises me a little when someone says they aren't interested in that :)

So it seems you prefer to play under 2000k. That's fair. But maybe it would help if to view it as different ways of playing the game. Some want big teams with long history, others want a more chess-like experience with equal rosters. That's why some people want legends, and others want 8 game leagues and 1100 resurrection tourneys I think. It's a question of what they think is the most fun.

Thanks for letting me share this different perspective on playing Blood Bowl. It's not meant degrading in any way. Wish you all the best :)

Posted by Cyrus-Havoc on 2016-08-17 15:49:10

My thinking is more on the planing where the team is going rather than what happens when I get there as we all know a plan rarely survives contact with the enemy.

I guess it does contain an element of optimal TV. But most of the time the team is going on its way to that rather than being there.

Regarding 2000+ teams it just doesn't happen for a long time & while I am sure I could enjoy games at that level I enjoy playing with a variety of races more.

I am less bothered by what happens when I play CPOMB you just move back down the plan & move on.

Anyway decided to try things from the other end worked out what I would like a Human team to be made some assumptions on skill rolls & Fans & came up with 1640 TV.

I should add that it is based on what I like best not what is thought best so no PO but fair bit of guard & mighty blow.

Thanks for all the imput.

Posted by Uedder on 2016-08-17 15:55:54

with elves you can pretty much get well over 2k in 20 or so games if things go the right way.

And I think elves are best at high tv.

Posted by Verminardo on 2016-08-17 16:30:21

It really depends on what you want to do. Want to play a league that resets after 8 games? Plan for that. Want to play R Minors at 1600 TV? Plan for that. Want to play Majors? Well depending on race anything between 1700 and, oh, 2500+ can do well in Majors. But that's not what you meant is it?

I guess what you mean is just pick-up games, with no particular goal in mind. For those, I can see why you wouldn't want to go up to really heavy TV. Scheduling in both R and B works better (as in, yields better matches, in terms of numbers, diversity, and balance) in the range up to 1500-1600 TV, the games are quicker and the match-up is less likely to be skewed by huge stat freaks or killer combos.

Posted by Cyrus-Havoc on 2016-08-17 16:34:35

Good point Verminardo! I was thinking just regular play. In leagues it is easier as you know who you are going to play before hand.

Having said all this I am now tempted to build a 2000 + team as my next project!
I get distracted much too easily.

Posted by koadah on 2016-08-17 16:40:51

I'm not sure what you are asking here.

I assume that the answer is play a lot of games and protect your best players.

Posted by Verminardo on 2016-08-17 16:47:15

No I get it, there are two extremes here, you can either pick the skill that is the immediate best improvement to the team, or you can plan for long term development. This becomes especially relevant when you have to decide whether to take or ignore a Stat or Double. Personally I base those decisions on what I want to do with the team but I never, ever plan for Legend skills. That's just too long term for me. This has more to do with number of games, than TV, though.

Posted by Cyrus-Havoc on 2016-08-17 19:07:33

@koadah I have often seen things about building individual players to Legend but when you translate that to teams it only works for the biggest teams. I think I have only ever had about 3 legends. What I wanted to do was work out what was the realistic level I would build a team to & plan for that. As I said I am interested in the theory as much as the practise. I don't want a team of legends & rookies I want balanced teams.
This is a bit like thinking out loud by writing this I have answered my own question really. The answer is to decide what I want on a team then work out what it would cost. I like to have a plan its part of the fun for me. If I was only playing games with no object I probably would have stopped by now.

Posted by MattDakka on 2016-08-17 19:13:16

"I don't want a team of legends & rookies I want balanced teams."
It doesn't work in CRP, it's the Stars & Scrubs ruleset.


If you want to play with a purpose, you could aim to achieve Legend rank with all the races but Goblins, Ogres and Halflings, that should keep you busy for a while.

Posted by Cyrus-Havoc on 2016-08-17 19:32:52

I don't agree with you Matt. Yes those teams do well & as with the whole CPOMB thing tend to spoil the fun for those who don't like it. I think balanced teams are more fun particularly at the planning stage & can work in terms of winning games too.
The Legend rank thing is something I have done with a few races but doesn't hold much interest for me. I have done Gridfilling & playing 50 games with & against every race in ranked too.
To me the most interesting thing (at the moment at least) is team building. But I think I am going to try making some 2000 TV box teams next.

Posted by MattDakka on 2016-08-17 19:37:41

Horses for courses.
:)

Posted by keggiemckill on 2016-08-17 19:44:27

Our TT league actually saw a team go over the 300 TV mark not to long ago. I think he bought 4 extra RRS to make it over, but he was there. He didn't win many games because inducements killed him in the end. Neat yo see it though.

Posted by Scarlak on 2016-08-17 20:08:36

For most team types in a league or tournament TV of around 190 is around optimal to have the right amount of stars without getting hammered by inducements.

If not in a tournament or league then who cares. Have fun.

Posted by licker on 2016-08-17 21:55:22

I'm with those who don't really understand this question. As Balle said, the idea you seem to be putting forward is utterly foreign to me. You don't so much plan a development path for your team, as you simply play the games and see where nuffle takes you.

Sure, you can have some basic notion of having a tackle/strip/side step war dancer, or X cpombers, or whatever it is you think would be fun/good to play with.

However, once the dice start rolling, who knows how it will all come out. Maybe you keep on rolling doubles or stats, maybe your player 2 skills in to his build takes a -MA (or worse). Maybe some other random player gets +ST +ST.

I find there is ultimately little point in planning anything out before hand, it limits you ultimately. Take the best skill available at the time you have it. You can substitute in a double or a stat along the way, but many 'key' builds require (or are improved) a double anyway (usually for dodge, or maybe jump up, or mighty blow on an elf blitzer).

There is also not much reason to even worry about TV at all, unless you are trying to maximize your win rate, in which case building players becomes far more rote anyway.

Posted by xnoelx on 2016-08-18 04:08:15

Somebody (maybe SzeiberthAdam?) posted some stats recently (within the last few months, probably), which showed how much teams won and lost at different TVs. There was a link to a spreadsheet, and you could see the point for each team where gaining TV stopped increasing their win rate, or something along those lines. So pretty much exactly what you want. But I can't remember which thread it was in...