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Foad
Last seen 5 hours ago
Foad (13462)
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Super Star
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2021

2021-12-09 05:10:31
rating 5.8

2020

2020-08-10 17:48:53
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2020-04-27 13:04:00
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2015-04-08 14:05:39
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2014-08-03 16:09:52
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2013-03-08 19:23:51
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2011

2011-11-16 00:32:36
rating 4.9
2011-10-27 05:35:54
rating 4.9
2011-11-16 00:32:36
12 votes, rating 4.9
Response to Purplegoo's blog post
Purplegoo has a habit of always put thought and logic in his arguements... I question if the internets is the right place for him.

His commentary drawing parallels to rugby & football is interesting though - as certain rules are seldom enforced except in extreme situations; but remember, every rule is there for a reason. I would like introduce to the reason for the 4-minute rule. His name is Warwick*.

In my local TT there are 2 Warwicks*. The first is a great guy, has run our league for years, always taking filler teams to help the newer guys out and is an asset to the game. The second, has negligible social skills, questionable logic and a broken moral compass in regards to not only gaming rules and etiquette, but to life itself. He is also painstakingly slow. His thought process will take about 1-2 minutes to assess a table position, and then he will make a move. The problem is that once dice a rolled, he will reassess the table position. It is not uncommon for games with him to run for well over 4 hours.

Until him, I had never even heard of the 4 minute rule - but now we all rely on it when playing him. Some players bring chess clocks. 1 player has customised a poker timer set to 4 minutes. You have no idea how much I wish I was joking right now...

I'll also admit that I keep an eye on my watch when I play him. But do I slap it down and yell "TURN IS OVER JACKASS!!!"? Well, as much as I'd love to, no - it's just used to move the play along. Would this be an issue if he wasn't such an oxygen thief outside of the game? Probably not - but insofar as negative playing experiences go, that guy takes the cake. It would be so much worse if the 4 minute rule did not exist.

I also used to work for Wizards of the Coast in the Organised Play team, and have helped run a number of high level tournaments. Working in that environment, you have to hold players accountable for their actions, and as such you tend to hold yourself accountable for your actions - if you make a mistake, you own it. It's that simple. After I left Wizards, I moved to a more casual playgroup that had a "Whatever dude" philosophy, and it frustrated me as my friends would continuously ask me to take things back. Things I would never ask to have taken back myself. As an 18xx player, a great motto is "A tile laid, is a tile played". I was surprised how much this bothered me, but eventually realised that it wasn't the "un-attack" step the bothered me - it was the "dumbing down" of the game I love. I mean the game was the same, but all of a sudden it lacked a level of gamesmanship. It's funny actually, I stopped playing Magic after that (about 4 years ago), and moved to boardgames & BloodBowl - but that play group has now started moving into competitive tournament play, and they are beginning to see that holding themselves to a higher standard of play, adds an element to the game. I kinda feel like a proud Dad watching his son starting his first day at school.

And to me, the 4-minute rule has a place in BloodBowl. If you disagree, then that's fine too - if you have issue with me enforcing it, that's cool, just let me know and I wont. But if you do go down that path I feel you a robbing yourself of something. To take forever turn in, turn out and to over-analyze your play is to take the spontaneity out of the game. It kinda makes it, well...

*sigh*

OK Little Johnny, take as long as you need... One day you'll be a big boy...
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Comments
Posted by Foad on 2011-11-16 00:33:28
* His name is not actually Warwick, it's Geoff...
Posted by Irgy on 2011-11-16 02:12:18
To you then though I would assume the benefits of the 4 minute rule are basically as a weapon against this minority group of painful overthinkers. The fact that it's in the rules then is essentially just a convenience, the real motivation for supporting it is against a particular sort of person.

My point then is that, sure, it's *a* way of dealing with that problem, but it's not a good one. The only thing it has going for it is that it happens to be in the rules. Otherwise it has a whole lot of side-effects that ruin games and cause a lot of grief. In TT you can bring chess clocks to games against Warrick and leave them at home against everyone else, but on fumbbl now you have all manner of griefers timing you out while you take a toilet break.

I know my fair share of Warrick's too, but you shouldn't fix one problem by making a bigger one. Especially not when there's all manner of better solutions available.
Posted by koadah on 2011-11-16 09:03:55
Isn't timing out AFK coaches against the rules?

What are the better solutions?
Posted by pythrr on 2011-11-16 10:13:43
nice blog.

also funny, in a scary way :)

and Irgy, reading fail much? back to comprehension 101 for you, sir!
Posted by Calcium on 2011-11-16 10:25:09
I enjoyed reading this blog.

We had a total tool in our RL league down in sunny Weymouth, but then I got thrown out :) (only joking, I still play and enjoy it!)