Posted by koadah on 2010-03-23 10:26:27

Nah, not in the last 20 years.

Call me when Pacman fights Mayweather or you allow the guys to kick ;)

Posted by Russo on 2010-03-23 12:46:27

Never a boxing fan, but I tend to keep abreast of all sports where I can.

To be honest boxing has really dwindled in the UK, with the only advertised stuff being late at night and pay-per-view often. So I can imagine that does not help maintain interest.

Read your article on the Klit'ko brothers and I have to say yes it is different because they are brothers. You hold your punches, you lack the complete aggression within.

Its like playing games with your children, you dont use your killer instinct because you don't want them to lose.

OK when your brother is grown up and a 7 ft monster its not quite the same, but then no other game is one where your trying to punch the stuffing out of your opponent.

If I were boxing for a living I would need to be able to psyche myself up to the single-minded outlook needed to go out and punch somebody repeatedly, and not think about the consequence of each connection I make.

If it were my brother or grown-up child I faced in the ring I would not be able to achieve that mind-set.

My two pennies worth thats all :-)

Posted by GeneralMarauder on 2010-03-23 13:07:44

Nice articles.
Klitschkos haven't officially boxed against eachother and never will as Vitali will retire after this year, and the mother thingy too... =).

I bumped into height issue when playing a boxing manager game... when you had big height/reach advantage to your opponent and used 'fight at distance' style, you took much less hits/damage and won with ease. Irl Klitschkos are doing the same things, which seems to be pretty flawless tactic when well executed. Not that entertaining, but anything that works so well must be respected.

What I'd really like to see is a good, agressive inside fighter with power, facing either of the Klitschkos. Don't think current heavyweight division has too many candidates though. Chambers really lacked movement and willingness to even try out anything, to get over Wladimirs reach.

Looking forward to Mosley - Mayweather (vs Pacquaio), Haye-Klitschko in future would be interesting fight to see too.

Posted by BunnyPuncher on 2010-03-23 14:07:46

The only "problem" in the heavyweight division is that it has been so long since the Americans dominated the division. The 70s, 80s and 90s were all about the supremacy of the African American heavyweights and people in the USA loved it. The success of their titans proved the maxim of American Exceptionalism.

In this last decade, we've seen that other places "where the kids grow up hard" can produce impressive, dominant fighters like the bros. Klitschko. The US is where the money is at, and when they ain't winning they tend to run home with their ball. When a new US fighter is a dominant champ you will see the Americans run back in droves to the division and the sport.

I love my American neighbours (literally, I'm in Texas) but dag-nabbit they sure are overly tied up with their nationalistic narratives.

I read your articles. I'm no where near the boxing fan that you are so I was less interested in many of the other stories :)

Posted by erased000019 on 2010-03-23 16:43:20

Bunny.

I completely agree with you about your take on the heavyweight division actually.

I write mostly from an American perspective because thats where I live and the people I'm around. Also I think that since the United States still sets the tone to some extent when it comes to the sport of boxing (a lot of major fights still come here even when neither fighter is American) it is detrimental to the sport when Americans don't want to watch it. Or maybe Im just bitter that I had to watch the fight on the internet because no American TV station carried it. :(

That being said I think it is a good thing that boxing has become more global and that we have champions from all over the world.

American athletes that are larger in stature tend to go into football or basketball these days, and since those sports aren't as popular in Europe, I think its understandable that Europe is going to continue to produce the best heavyweight fighters.

Posted by BeeRTRuCK on 2010-03-23 18:49:23

morehouse, whats your opinion on mma? do you see it as a threat to boxing with both competing for fans, tv rights and talent?


before you flame me about pro boxers training differently to mma fighters and its much more specialized etc i add competing for talent meaning at a junior level.

Sure the money is in boxing, but is mma having an effect on popularity?

Posted by f_alk on 2010-03-23 20:06:32

Yes and No.
I do believe that they don't to fight each other for their given reason, and I think there is a difference between not fighting each other and not objecting to fighting at all.
And: I think that it makes them even greater.
Or in different words: A man beating up his brother just for cash or fame is sick and disgusting (Being extra harsh here, but that's one way of viewing it).
Money is not everything to them. Not hurting their brother is more.

Theoretically, it would be a great fight, I agree with your analysis there. But:
You don't hurt family. You don't beat your wife, children, parents or brother. Full Stop.

And they owed nothing to boxing if boxing would demand that fight from them. If that demand came, then I would quit following boxing instantly.

Posted by erased000019 on 2010-03-23 20:18:51

BeeRTruCK, i think in the long run MMA will have a positive effect on the boxing world.

For a long time boxing didnt have any competition when it came to combat sports. Things like wrestling and Judo were never popular spectator sports, etc. Because of the lack of competition, boxing got lazy and starting throwing out a bad product.

I think boxing promoters can learn a lot from the way UFC builds up a card by having more than one big fight on it. In boxing we too often get one good fight and the rest are garbage and they ask us for 50 dollars to watch.

I dont think MMA will ever reach the levels of popularity that boxing has and can because the average person just does not find grappling very entertaining.

I definitely respect wrestling and I know it is a hard sport to compete in, but it just doesnt make for great spectating. People prefer to watch combat sports that involve standing and striking.

I think the average sports fan is a little turned off watching ground and pound type stuff also as it is so brutal to watch somebody get hit when they already down.

As far as talent, that is a very interesting question. I don't feel that we have seen a very top high level athlete in MMA yet, although I would say George St. Pierre is very close.

If you had your choice to compete in either, there is still much more money in boxing, and most people who are good enough to do either would go that route for that reason. The few boxers we have seen in MMA (James Toney, Ricardo Mayorga, Ray Mercer) have been guys that are completely washed up and cant get paid for big fights in the boxing world anymore.

For MMA to attract the level of talent that boxing does, it would have to go past boxing in terms of popularity, and it isnt quite there yet.

Also, if MMA does grow to that level, it will be interesting to see if the UFC starts to be more understanding about letting fighters promote themselves. In boxing you can choose anyone you want to represent you and still be a top level guy. If you try to do that in MMA (see Fedor) Dana White will do everything he can to crap on you.

Posted by koadah on 2010-03-23 22:23:14

Most people I speak to stopped watching boxing long before they had even heard of MMA.

Taking all the big fights to pay per view at 3AM killed it for a lot of casual fans. When I was a kid boxers seemed much bigger stars. My kids couldn't recognise more than 5 current boxers (if that many) and they have never sat down and watched a fight on TV.

They could probably put names to the faces of 200+ soccer players.

They don't really watch UFC much either but thanks to video games they could probably name 30+ UFC fighters.

I didn't think I'd like "all that rolling about on the floor" either but it soon grew on me. UFC et al are not going to just fill their free cards with wrestlers anyway. That Versus TV card was full of strikers (Even the wrestlers looked like strikers). Irvin and Sakara looked as though they were going to have a boxing match. Dana probably had a fit when he saw Kongo trying to take down Buentello ;)

I don't know anyone who boxes but all the kids who visit us have tried one martial art or other. And there is now enough money in MMA to prevent some of those top wrestlers from getting a proper job.

Boxing needs to smarten up it's act if it doesn't want to lose the young people.

Posted by hotspurstu on 2010-03-24 04:16:13

Boxing fan too. Read the Klitschko article will read more later. Posted a response on that page. Good stuff and thanks for linking.

Posted by erased000019 on 2010-03-25 00:12:21

koadah, agreed that boxing needs to do a better job promoting itself.

I do think however that a little of the lack of popularity is overblown. So many people say nobody watches boxing but yet Manny Pacquiao is much much more famous worldwide than any MMA fighter, and Floyd Mayweather Jr's last fight that wasn't even for any kind of championship sold about as many PPV buys as the biggest UFC event ever.

I think its more that boxing just isnt as popular in the western world as it used to be, not that it isnt still huge world wide.

Posted by Gromrilram on 2010-03-25 02:59:21

My comments on a cuple of issues.

Firstly, just a side comment by BunnyPuncher:"we've seen that other places "where the kids grow up hard" can produce impressive, dominant fighters "
I think that statement is wrong and displays a thought in US-Boxing. The US stars, the latest probably Tyson, have reached their level of skill in the streets, and it is reflected by they way they fight. Reflexes, good moving in the body, the "dancing" Ali allready spoke about. That combined with a good punch, lead to a good combination.
But fighters like the Klitschkos are from a different time. They excell less in bodymoves, they are much "stiffer" than the US-style fighters. What they do is, excell at technique and tactics. The Klitschkos didnt fight their way up, and they studied sports for a reason. They not only know how to box, they also have the brain to know how to lead a fight.

Secondly, promoting. Germany, where I come from, is quite big in heavy weight box-promotion, not only because of the Klitschkos who make most fights here. And there is a reason: Boxing is free television, mostly on channels without ANY advertisments, and we see those fights at 11pm. That leads to popularity, that leads to fans that really cheer enjoy the fights.

Thirdly, the brother fight. I really agree with f_alk there. Besides, why should you owe a sport anything? Performing your sport is all you have to do. The money they earn is not from the sport, its coming from the media. So following that, boxing associations owe the Klitschkos!
And its the way you say it: It's a sport. And by not punching someone you love in the face, they keep it a sport. They lift it over the level of "its a way of making money", they state clear, here is our line, we won't step over it, just for a sport.

And lastly, the great fights...
Waluew probably isnt the best fighter, but it would be a great fight, Hayes probably is going there, Chagaev if he would train better, alexandre povetkin in 1-2 fights perhaps...
I see great potential fights, and what in my opinion is the much bigger poblem than the Klitschkos not fighting each other is the behavour of managments, on the Klitschkos as on the possible opponents side. Waiting 1.5 years for the next klitscho fight... is not keeping the tension up, only if you see fights regularly, its staying interesting.

Posted by erased000019 on 2010-03-25 07:15:28

Grom, to take your comments in order...

I think the amount of boxers who come from being street fighters is probably very low anywhere. That type of thing is more legend than reality. American Jr. Welterweight champion Devon Alexander, for example, is from a very rough neighborhood in St. Louis, but regularly states with pride that he has never punched someone outside of a boxing ring. I would be surprised if someone like Floyd Mayweather has been in any real street fights either considering he has been groomed to be an elite athlete since he was a child.

Free TV fights is amazing, and something boxing promoters have been trying to work out in America lately, but without much success. My father is not even a real boxing fan, but he can talk about seeing Ali fight just because it happened to be on regular TV. A lot of people in American probably wont be able to tell their kids that about the current top American boxers, which is too bad.

About owing a sport something, I think if you are going to wear a championship belt and call yourself a champion, you need to be out their fighting top competition. Ideally, that would be against the best possible opponent, which is of course each other. Chambers was a reasonably well thought of heavyweight, so I didnt have too many problems with him as an opponent. Vitali's next fight, however, is nothing short of a disgrace. Albert Sosnowski (ranked 19th by the boxrec.com) Is one of the most undeserving heavyweight challengers of all time. He has never even faced a top 10 level fighter, and recently lost a decision 8 rounds to 0 against an unranked journeyman. To think that this fight will be one of the last times I get to watch Vitali is downright sickening.

As far as the other potential opponents you mentioned, Valuev has never shown me anything that would lead me to believe he could win a single round against either Klitschko. Haye would sell the fight with his mouth, but would end up getting knocked flat about the same way as Chambers. Chagaev has already been beaten senseless by Wlad, and needs to do a lot to prove he deserves another chance. Povetkin i think is at least interesting. He is being trained by one of my favorite people in the boxing world Teddy Atlas, and Teddy (always a straight shooter) thinks he is about ready for a shot at Wladimir. That is about the only fight left for either of them that would be worth paying to see at this point.