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2019-11-19 18:45:18
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2019-12-10 16:39:43
26 votes, rating 2.7
26 votes, rating 2.7
Gratz, Sorry, and other polite Feldercarb on Fumble.
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAIN OPINION STATEMENTS. TAKE THEM HOW YOU WISH, IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THESE ISSUES THAT'S GREAT BUT PLEASE LETS ALL BE "POLITE" IN THIS BLOG ABOUT BEING POLITE... LOLZ
I guess background first - I started on fumble um like a year ago or some odd, so compared to the all you old timers I'm still a green back wet behind the ears.. that being said I learn quickly, absorb information like a sponge and consider myself good at grasping concepts..
When I first started playing on fumble, my opponents would say the likes of "gratz, congrats, good job, well done, etc" when I scored a TD. At first this confused me. Maybe its because I'm american and europeans are more polite ? I mean Even when I attended Grand Tourneys for Warhammer 40K my opponents didn't cheer me as my Chaos Major Daemon of Tzentch crushed through the lines of their blue, green, purple n white space marines...
and I definetly didn't apologize when my chaplain's crozius arcanum crushed in the skull of the head War Boss of a huge Orc Waaaaaagh coming at me... no I was happy he was dead, I was happy. not SORRY.
So what gives fumbleres and fumblights? what is up with all this holding hands "Cum by ya" well wishing and apologizing as your BOB or Chaos Claw MB PO Warrior crushes your opponent?
I never understood the sorry. I could grasp the gratz eventually, thats being good sportsman to a point but then I feel like I HAVE to do it or my opponent thinks I'm shabby.. which is crap too... I should say gratz when I want to, when I feel my opponent deserves it not because it's the polite thing to do on fumble.
as a recent blog stated simply (in the voice of King Leonidas from the movie 300) "THIS IS BLOOD BOWL!!" I would have to say I have played alot of GW games throughout the years and none come to mind that match the death, mayhem, or sheer luck factor that blood bowl has..
I ask the simple question "Why would someone normally apologize to someone else? (Real life situation or online doesn't matter)
One - You made a mistake, feel guilty and want to make amends for the act
Two - You see someone in pain, mourning, sad etc. and want to show empathy by saying "I'm sorry for your loss, I'm sorry that happened to you, etc.
NEITHER OF THOSE AFORMENTIONED REASONS FOR SAYING "SORRY " APPLY when you kill, maim, hurt an opponent's player. Why do I make this statement?
Because its true. Really? YOU ARE REALLY GUILTY FOR SMASHING IN ANOTHERS FACE IN BLOOD BOWL SO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO ALEVIATE YOUR GUILT BY SAYING SORRY? REALLY? Or you ASSUME your opponent feels bad, is sad or distraught over the fact that their superstar/ legend just perished under the big body of a Tomb Guardian? How do you know how your opponent feels? maybe hes happy because of tv bloat, maybe he wants to start a new player but wants to let his legend go out playing the game he loves? You have no possible clue.
so with those two above reasons discounted from the reasons to say sorry we are left with one other reason that was given to me by a new player when he said it to me and I was trying to discuss this with him in chat it is this :
IT'S THE POLITE THING TO DO ON FUMBLE.... I say bull caca .bull caca. I played in real life leagues long before finding fumble, we never had polite notions of what to say. usually when youd kill an opponents guy youd feel some inner satisfaction, then say "gosh, thats to bad.." or whatever.. again I'm being forced to say sorry because it's the polite thing to do? It's the culture here on fumble thats the problem.
I put this out there : you need to be made of sterner stuff to play blood bowl and deal with the extreme luck factor involved. how do you go from hard skinned at the luck to being a needy crying person needing sorry when your player dies?
I don't get it.
As for me heres my first and last - SORRY - you will ever "here" me utter.
Great playing with you all! look forward to any opposite opinions then mine and how they reason it..
-Swampy-
I guess background first - I started on fumble um like a year ago or some odd, so compared to the all you old timers I'm still a green back wet behind the ears.. that being said I learn quickly, absorb information like a sponge and consider myself good at grasping concepts..
When I first started playing on fumble, my opponents would say the likes of "gratz, congrats, good job, well done, etc" when I scored a TD. At first this confused me. Maybe its because I'm american and europeans are more polite ? I mean Even when I attended Grand Tourneys for Warhammer 40K my opponents didn't cheer me as my Chaos Major Daemon of Tzentch crushed through the lines of their blue, green, purple n white space marines...
and I definetly didn't apologize when my chaplain's crozius arcanum crushed in the skull of the head War Boss of a huge Orc Waaaaaagh coming at me... no I was happy he was dead, I was happy. not SORRY.
So what gives fumbleres and fumblights? what is up with all this holding hands "Cum by ya" well wishing and apologizing as your BOB or Chaos Claw MB PO Warrior crushes your opponent?
I never understood the sorry. I could grasp the gratz eventually, thats being good sportsman to a point but then I feel like I HAVE to do it or my opponent thinks I'm shabby.. which is crap too... I should say gratz when I want to, when I feel my opponent deserves it not because it's the polite thing to do on fumble.
as a recent blog stated simply (in the voice of King Leonidas from the movie 300) "THIS IS BLOOD BOWL!!" I would have to say I have played alot of GW games throughout the years and none come to mind that match the death, mayhem, or sheer luck factor that blood bowl has..
I ask the simple question "Why would someone normally apologize to someone else? (Real life situation or online doesn't matter)
One - You made a mistake, feel guilty and want to make amends for the act
Two - You see someone in pain, mourning, sad etc. and want to show empathy by saying "I'm sorry for your loss, I'm sorry that happened to you, etc.
NEITHER OF THOSE AFORMENTIONED REASONS FOR SAYING "SORRY " APPLY when you kill, maim, hurt an opponent's player. Why do I make this statement?
Because its true. Really? YOU ARE REALLY GUILTY FOR SMASHING IN ANOTHERS FACE IN BLOOD BOWL SO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO ALEVIATE YOUR GUILT BY SAYING SORRY? REALLY? Or you ASSUME your opponent feels bad, is sad or distraught over the fact that their superstar/ legend just perished under the big body of a Tomb Guardian? How do you know how your opponent feels? maybe hes happy because of tv bloat, maybe he wants to start a new player but wants to let his legend go out playing the game he loves? You have no possible clue.
so with those two above reasons discounted from the reasons to say sorry we are left with one other reason that was given to me by a new player when he said it to me and I was trying to discuss this with him in chat it is this :
IT'S THE POLITE THING TO DO ON FUMBLE.... I say bull caca .bull caca. I played in real life leagues long before finding fumble, we never had polite notions of what to say. usually when youd kill an opponents guy youd feel some inner satisfaction, then say "gosh, thats to bad.." or whatever.. again I'm being forced to say sorry because it's the polite thing to do? It's the culture here on fumble thats the problem.
I put this out there : you need to be made of sterner stuff to play blood bowl and deal with the extreme luck factor involved. how do you go from hard skinned at the luck to being a needy crying person needing sorry when your player dies?
I don't get it.
As for me heres my first and last - SORRY - you will ever "here" me utter.
Great playing with you all! look forward to any opposite opinions then mine and how they reason it..
-Swampy-
Comments
Posted by awambawamb on 2019-12-10 17:11:40
[...]"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same"[...]
it's about etiquette. being a good winner, being humble about the gifts Nuffle gives you that moment knowing that you're bound to be on the unlucky side, sooner or later. Overly bragging over the outcomes of a dices is bad taste, imho.
And treat those two impostors just the same"[...]
it's about etiquette. being a good winner, being humble about the gifts Nuffle gives you that moment knowing that you're bound to be on the unlucky side, sooner or later. Overly bragging over the outcomes of a dices is bad taste, imho.
Posted by ex-convict on 2019-12-10 17:44:16
As blood bowl coaches, we all know how hard building up a team you can enjoy playing with can be. It is a shame, though inevitable, that you are going to lose the players you spent hours building up over the course of weeks, months, and maybe even years if they are lucky.
Even as competitors trying to win, I still feel bad when an opposing player gets permed to the point where they won't be usable anymore, because it is so difficult to get the team to the point of 'completion' as in our dreams.
I would prefer to badly hurt and MNG all of your players in the process of helping me win the game, because at least your team will be relatively in-tact and playable going forward, as opposed to those games where you sit through a beating and have nothing but a mangled, permed mess for the following match.
So yes, I am 'sorry' that one of your promising players got permed, even if my chances to win increase, because your level of 'fun' (which is already loosely tied to dice in this unforgiving game) is likely to decrease, and we are just playing a game, after all.
And while I have switched from saying 'grats' to 'good score' when the opposition crosses the goal-line (because saying 'grats for scoring due to either luck or my incompetent defense' always felt weird), it is still a bummer watching someone's hard work be all for naught due to random injuries*
*except when your rival team in a League has a player go SPLOOSH...that is awesome!
Even as competitors trying to win, I still feel bad when an opposing player gets permed to the point where they won't be usable anymore, because it is so difficult to get the team to the point of 'completion' as in our dreams.
I would prefer to badly hurt and MNG all of your players in the process of helping me win the game, because at least your team will be relatively in-tact and playable going forward, as opposed to those games where you sit through a beating and have nothing but a mangled, permed mess for the following match.
So yes, I am 'sorry' that one of your promising players got permed, even if my chances to win increase, because your level of 'fun' (which is already loosely tied to dice in this unforgiving game) is likely to decrease, and we are just playing a game, after all.
And while I have switched from saying 'grats' to 'good score' when the opposition crosses the goal-line (because saying 'grats for scoring due to either luck or my incompetent defense' always felt weird), it is still a bummer watching someone's hard work be all for naught due to random injuries*
*except when your rival team in a League has a player go SPLOOSH...that is awesome!
Posted by Throweck on 2019-12-10 18:05:00
What is wrong with being polite?!
Also, it's FUMBBL.
I'm not sure of your approach here Swampy. Perhaps this is what seperates FUMBBL from other sites/communities. As a BB2 player and a TT player, I can say that it's like this in other areas I play. People are polite in my league alongside the banter. We don't gloat over people's misfortune. Same in the TSD BB2 league (KFoged's). There is banter but it's polite.
Also, it's FUMBBL.
I'm not sure of your approach here Swampy. Perhaps this is what seperates FUMBBL from other sites/communities. As a BB2 player and a TT player, I can say that it's like this in other areas I play. People are polite in my league alongside the banter. We don't gloat over people's misfortune. Same in the TSD BB2 league (KFoged's). There is banter but it's polite.
Posted by Verminardo on 2019-12-10 18:10:09
This pops up on blogs and forums every once in a while. Maybe it's helpful to consider that "sorry", in this context, doesn't mean "I apologize for fouling your AG5 Super Star, it wasn't intentional", that wouldn't make any sense. Instead it may mean "this game must be frustrating to you right now, I sympathize". This always seemed obvious to me but since it keeps coming up I guess it's not as obvious as all that, so I have since taken to phrase it more clearly.
As for being sympathetic and friendly and sportsmanlike, I think that is an absolute given on table top, not as much of a given on Fumbbl but still very much the norm. Again, that doesn't seem strange to me at all, quite the contrary, you are engaging in a recreational activity with another human being after all, so obviously you should try to make it fun for the other person and hope they will do the same, no matter who wins or loses.
As for being sympathetic and friendly and sportsmanlike, I think that is an absolute given on table top, not as much of a given on Fumbbl but still very much the norm. Again, that doesn't seem strange to me at all, quite the contrary, you are engaging in a recreational activity with another human being after all, so obviously you should try to make it fun for the other person and hope they will do the same, no matter who wins or loses.
Posted by Throweck on 2019-12-10 18:13:55
Also in point number 2 you said 'show empathy'. I think that sums it up really. If I kill your legend human blitzer I will show empathy. After all, there is another human being involved in the game.
It made me think of the last UKTC where a good friend of mine played a guy that after every casualty, stood up or raised his hands and shouted 'YES, CAS!'. It wasn't long before a lot of people thought that guy was a douchebag. It doesn't make for an enjoyable experience. :)
It made me think of the last UKTC where a good friend of mine played a guy that after every casualty, stood up or raised his hands and shouted 'YES, CAS!'. It wasn't long before a lot of people thought that guy was a douchebag. It doesn't make for an enjoyable experience. :)
Posted by Throweck on 2019-12-10 18:16:22
Ninja'd by Vermi! :D
Another memory I have from that UKTC, I played a guy whose dice were so bad it broke him. We've all been there. So after the game, we shook hands, I gave him some dice and bought him a pint. It's about not being a dick at it's most basic of forms for me.
Another memory I have from that UKTC, I played a guy whose dice were so bad it broke him. We've all been there. So after the game, we shook hands, I gave him some dice and bought him a pint. It's about not being a dick at it's most basic of forms for me.
Posted by koadah on 2019-12-10 18:21:04
You don't have to apologise if you kill or maim a player.
If an opponent apologises it doesn't (necessarily) mean that the opponent thinks that you are a whiny, pixel hugging, crybaby.
People have different ideas on these things. If someone apologises, you can just say "no problem". Or you could bitch and whine about the death if that suits you better. ;)
If an opponent apologises it doesn't (necessarily) mean that the opponent thinks that you are a whiny, pixel hugging, crybaby.
People have different ideas on these things. If someone apologises, you can just say "no problem". Or you could bitch and whine about the death if that suits you better. ;)
Posted by SpecialOne on 2019-12-10 18:23:00
Pure ettiquette to say grats when someone scores. About hurting stuff, I don't say sorry. It's part of the game, but it is also part of the game to acknowledge when someone broke down your defence and scored a TD.
Easy as that.
Easy as that.
Posted by JackH on 2019-12-10 19:02:19
It's the concept of being polite, sponge it up.
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2019-12-10 19:10:21
Well, sry. I will not mention it again :)
Posted by erased000047 on 2019-12-10 19:23:58
-ugh Geez I should have been watching this so my comments on all your comments wouldn't be so long-
I agree etiquette has its place. I just feel it has gotten to the point where it is forced upon us and not given to ourselves to decide whether we should or shouldn't do it. That "must do this" feeling takes away from a heart felt gratz.
My approach here Throweck was to spark a conversation about this topic, if for nothing else, for my own learning and growth by the input of all my contemporaries. Whether I come off as harsh or not, I can play the devil's advocate if it gets me what I want ;)
No, I'm not being sneaky, maybe I could have just said " lets all have a nice convo about being polite on fumble" but this way I take a side and am forced to defend my views.
I consider sportsmanship important in any venue. I always say gl hf and I mean it, thanks for the game, again... etc is part. I don't consider that being forced to do it either..
Yes I think it is important to show empathy... but i think saying just "sorry" doesn't accomplish that.
ok carry on... thanks :)
I agree etiquette has its place. I just feel it has gotten to the point where it is forced upon us and not given to ourselves to decide whether we should or shouldn't do it. That "must do this" feeling takes away from a heart felt gratz.
My approach here Throweck was to spark a conversation about this topic, if for nothing else, for my own learning and growth by the input of all my contemporaries. Whether I come off as harsh or not, I can play the devil's advocate if it gets me what I want ;)
No, I'm not being sneaky, maybe I could have just said " lets all have a nice convo about being polite on fumble" but this way I take a side and am forced to defend my views.
I consider sportsmanship important in any venue. I always say gl hf and I mean it, thanks for the game, again... etc is part. I don't consider that being forced to do it either..
Yes I think it is important to show empathy... but i think saying just "sorry" doesn't accomplish that.
ok carry on... thanks :)
Posted by Throweck on 2019-12-10 19:44:05
I think Vermi nailed it in his response.
A lot of coaches summarise by following the rule of 'Don't be a dick'
That, of course, is open to interpretation. :)
A lot of coaches summarise by following the rule of 'Don't be a dick'
That, of course, is open to interpretation. :)
Posted by koadah on 2019-12-10 21:00:32
How many people say "sorry" after a kill?
I'd guess not many. If it is a lot then OK, Fumbbl has changed.
Maybe that needs a poll. ;)
I'd guess not many. If it is a lot then OK, Fumbbl has changed.
Maybe that needs a poll. ;)
Posted by PurpleChest on 2019-12-10 21:40:27
Mostly I try to be polite. I think it is important. I try to show empathy in case needed, though i wouldn't care it doesnt mean my human opponent doesn't.
But also swampy, if we are playing, and you score, and I congratulate you, I 100% mean it.
But also swampy, if we are playing, and you score, and I congratulate you, I 100% mean it.
Posted by jdm on 2019-12-10 22:20:21
Sorry, to the English, doesn't always mean sorry. We scatter it on our speech like delicious croutons.
Tbf, we do have a lot to apologise for... Piers Morgan for one.
Tbf, we do have a lot to apologise for... Piers Morgan for one.
Posted by Rbthma on 2019-12-10 22:59:56
pretty much the only coaches I've seen who say sorry for killing a player are those really new to BB, they will learn to relish such things as they grow as a coach XD
Posted by selfy_74 on 2019-12-10 23:47:29
If I say sorry for killing one of your players then it’s definitely delicious croutons of sarcasm. I like the use of ‘delicious croutons’, thanks JDM!
Posted by JackassRampant on 2019-12-11 01:01:10
"Gratz" for a score is like "hf, gl" at the start of the match and "gg" at the end. "Sorry" for damage is optional: diabolical laughter carries a similar sentiment, and if it happens to you, you should laugh along with (but that's optional too; a little whine is a fine alternative).
I remember my first BB season. In week 2, I fouled my opponent repeatedly, killing two players and maiming a third en route to a 2-1 win. And every time I fouled into a SI or kill, I apologized: it drove my opponent crazy. The commish ruled that because of some impropriety in the schedule that I never understood we had to play it again (I think he was just playing favorites), and I did it [i]again[/i], killing [i]three[/i] guys (better guys), winning 2-0, and apologizing the whole way. The guy was shrieking at me by the end of the game.
I remember my first BB season. In week 2, I fouled my opponent repeatedly, killing two players and maiming a third en route to a 2-1 win. And every time I fouled into a SI or kill, I apologized: it drove my opponent crazy. The commish ruled that because of some impropriety in the schedule that I never understood we had to play it again (I think he was just playing favorites), and I did it [i]again[/i], killing [i]three[/i] guys (better guys), winning 2-0, and apologizing the whole way. The guy was shrieking at me by the end of the game.
Posted by FinnDiesel on 2019-12-11 01:12:14
English people say sorry to anything, accept the fact of it.
Posted by Lorebass on 2019-12-11 03:45:14
Whenever I kill or maim a star+ player i usually say i "Fixed 'em"
Posted by erased000047 on 2019-12-11 08:26:58
thanks for all the feedback, I truly understand a bit better..
I am and always a student to you all greats of blood bowl.
Cheers!
I am and always a student to you all greats of blood bowl.
Cheers!
Posted by razmus on 2019-12-11 13:14:19
<>Here you go, I'll boil it down for ya, eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDAsA4B5nHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOf6N6g2F9k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDAsA4B5nHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOf6N6g2F9k
Posted by Nachtogen on 2019-12-11 20:25:28
I say "hi, grats, gg, c ya", all the stuff that makes a polite coach. Or at least I try to, if I didn't I probably forgot or am pissed.
But "sorry", no, it's bloodbowl, you play to kill players. That's also my answer when someone says "sorry" to me, but who cares if they want to say it.
But "sorry", no, it's bloodbowl, you play to kill players. That's also my answer when someone says "sorry" to me, but who cares if they want to say it.
Posted by Jopotzuki on 2019-12-11 22:21:41
In Eurobowl one of my opponents was sorry for dicing me. I believe he was lieing and was actually happy. I never say sorry while playing games especially dice/cards/board games. IT IS A GAME! The dice kill the opponents legends not you! If I accidentally brake your miniatures while playing on table top then I am sorry, or throw a die in your eye.
If I ever win the FUMBBL Cup, should I apologize to everyone who I beat? Or apologize for the whole site for not letting them win?
If I ever win the FUMBBL Cup, should I apologize to everyone who I beat? Or apologize for the whole site for not letting them win?
Posted by DrClaes on 2019-12-12 07:08:39
I took the advice of someone earlier this year to role play it deadpan as the exasperated coach who's begging his team NOT to foul the downed wardancer/gutter runner/legend.
"Come on guys, just score already! There's noone in your way!"
"We know what we have to do first, coach!"
(cue sploosh noise, hopefully)
"Come on guys, just score already! There's noone in your way!"
"We know what we have to do first, coach!"
(cue sploosh noise, hopefully)
Posted by Bluegill87 on 2019-12-13 01:51:24
No sorry from me, and I'm aboot as Canadian as it gets. ;)
But I am generally quite polite and always wish my opponents a "take care" at the end of the day. Unless the coach is being something of a horse's ass all game then maybe the take care is all they'll get. :P
But as you've pointed out that's quite rare on this site. A turn 16 foul kill from me did earn a concession recently from an opponent in Secret League. I was kind of laughing about it too in the chat, not mocking but just the fact it gave me an extra player in return. (Daemons of Nurgle)
Most times I'm a chatterbox which the politeness often leads to, other times I'll go entire games without saying so much as a word. All depends on my current mood and the "feeling" I get from the other coach.
But I am generally quite polite and always wish my opponents a "take care" at the end of the day. Unless the coach is being something of a horse's ass all game then maybe the take care is all they'll get. :P
But as you've pointed out that's quite rare on this site. A turn 16 foul kill from me did earn a concession recently from an opponent in Secret League. I was kind of laughing about it too in the chat, not mocking but just the fact it gave me an extra player in return. (Daemons of Nurgle)
Most times I'm a chatterbox which the politeness often leads to, other times I'll go entire games without saying so much as a word. All depends on my current mood and the "feeling" I get from the other coach.
Posted by DrDeath on 2019-12-14 01:37:22
Saying 'grats' or 'well done' after your opponent scores is just good manners. You would do that when playing tabletop, so you should do it here too - because your opponent is a person not a computer screen.