Posted by pythrr on 2010-03-30 08:22:19
pish
hit stuff, if it falls over,.kick it. if it doesn't squeal, it's probably the ball.
Posted by Ganabul on 2010-03-30 08:22:57
:)
You're on fire today, sunshine.
Posted by f_alk on 2010-03-30 13:45:16
Isn't even more than 169?
The first step has 8 possibilities, the second and each subsequent has 7 (if he does not have the ball, then walking backwards is a waste). And who knows if he goes all 6 MA or less - or even GFIs (I will ignore those)?
So we have 8*7*7*7*7*7 + 8*7*7*7*7 ... + 8 = 156864 !
169 is the number of possible end-positions, but not the number of possible ways.
And the AI should not only decide where to go, but also how to go :)
Posted by Hitonagashi on 2010-03-30 14:18:14
The difference is, that the options are dramatically reduced.
We don't say "I want that player to go there, then there, then there". We say "Okay, I want to mark that guy with this player, hence I want a path that takes him from there to there with the minimum number of dodges/rrs."
That's a dramatically smaller number of possibilities, and is usually reasonably intuitive.
The hard bit for me of BB is caging. I want to protect the ball carrier. How do I set up my defense of the ball carrier such that he cannot be blitzed? Just running figures won't do, and that I believe is where experience comes in, in the completely risk free positional moves.
The best BB coaches I think can look at a position and think "A lino there, there and there, and another cover there" and my ball carrier is safe for a turn. That's how it always appears to me.
Posted by Ganabul on 2010-03-30 16:33:49
@ falk
6 MA player has 169 possible moves, excluding any dice rolling.
I started with just moves to point up the scale of the problem, but actual route leads into Hitonogahsi's comment.
For an individual player, yes, the choice is reasonably intuitive - but you also have to decide which player; the optimal order; and what to do with the other 10 players.
Posted by princevaliant on 2010-03-30 19:38:01
tl; dr
;-)
Really interesting, quasi-academic look at blood bowl. Thanks
Posted by pythrr on 2010-03-30 20:58:06
"completely risk free positional moves"
-
hito - no such thing. BB is about managing risk, not removing it. In fact, one wishes to leave a small chance of the opp succeeding, in order to tempt him in, watch him fael, then boot him to death. Sucker-trap tactics rock.
Posted by f_alk on 2010-03-31 22:18:21
To get to the space 6 spaces "up", you can go:
(a) six spaces straight up or
(b) 4 straight up, one diagonal left-up, one right-up or
(c) 4 up, 1 right-up, 1 left up or
(d) 3 up, 1 right-up, 1 up, 1 left-up ....
etc. etc.
So, to get to one space (of the 169 possible reachable spaces) you have several ways (imagine to run around an opponent to the left or right).
So a player with MA 6 has more than 150000 moves to reach the 169 spaces.
The problem with Hitonagashi's comment is:
Computers have no intuition whatsoever - so even "reasonable intuitive" is incredibly hard for them for the above reasons: Computers must calculate each possible move and will assign numbers of merit to it.