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2024-09-23 07:11:27
3 votes, rating 6
3 votes, rating 6
Need Help Playing Against Vampires
Use this match for reference, you can see what Ive tried so far:
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4573938
I always try to have take aways from games - things I write in the match report so I remind myself to go back and look it over and learn. But after 2 consecutive whompings from this team in the blackbox, Im all out of ideas. Im looking for advice or help playing against vampires.
In general I have tried the following to try to get the ball down the field:
A venga bus with a light screen around it.
- Doesnt work because they just 2 plus hypno 4-5 times and sack the ball carrier.
A double screen (columns too)
- Doesnt work becauser they just hypno the first guy, then the second guy, then sack the ball carrier.
Running multiple receivers down the field for a pass.
- Doesnt work because they just hypno the targets and now they cant catch until activated.
Using the sideline for one side of a cage, then as much of a screen as I can around it.
- Doesnt work bevcause they just hypno 4 times and either sack the ball carrier or the cage piece on the sideline.
Just letting the score happens and smacking as many thralls as possible.
- Doesnt work because they really dont need that many thralls with 3-4 RRs.
This is in general but if it helps steer your suggestions: teams ive used for blackbox this season: orks, ogres, renegades, skaven, lizards.
Im tired of losing to vampires and walking away feeling like I learned nothing afterward. Share what has worked for any of you in the past against vampires please.
Thank you in advance,
-Jogrenaut
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4573938
I always try to have take aways from games - things I write in the match report so I remind myself to go back and look it over and learn. But after 2 consecutive whompings from this team in the blackbox, Im all out of ideas. Im looking for advice or help playing against vampires.
In general I have tried the following to try to get the ball down the field:
A venga bus with a light screen around it.
- Doesnt work because they just 2 plus hypno 4-5 times and sack the ball carrier.
A double screen (columns too)
- Doesnt work becauser they just hypno the first guy, then the second guy, then sack the ball carrier.
Running multiple receivers down the field for a pass.
- Doesnt work because they just hypno the targets and now they cant catch until activated.
Using the sideline for one side of a cage, then as much of a screen as I can around it.
- Doesnt work bevcause they just hypno 4 times and either sack the ball carrier or the cage piece on the sideline.
Just letting the score happens and smacking as many thralls as possible.
- Doesnt work because they really dont need that many thralls with 3-4 RRs.
This is in general but if it helps steer your suggestions: teams ive used for blackbox this season: orks, ogres, renegades, skaven, lizards.
Im tired of losing to vampires and walking away feeling like I learned nothing afterward. Share what has worked for any of you in the past against vampires please.
Thank you in advance,
-Jogrenaut
Comments
Posted by TheArtemisBlack on 2024-09-23 07:36:18
1. I had good dice, I rarely snaked and when I did it was either irrelevant or I could play around it. Not every vamp coach you play will cover failures as well.
2. Making someone hypno 4-5 times is basically the best you can do. Try to make sure that the vamps have to get in their own way to hypno or roll 3+s. And when they do sack the ball is in a mess of players and can't be moved away easily.
3. The goal with vamps is not so much to not get sacked ever, it's to make it as hard as you can and then be able to both resack the ball if they get it 'and' you get to punch everyone who based to hypno. Use the st4's to screen so they get 2d blocks on the hypno vamps and keep a tackle player free.
4. It's also pretty shitty luck to get me with vamps twice in a row and I didn't get bad dice :)
5. Good luck!
2. Making someone hypno 4-5 times is basically the best you can do. Try to make sure that the vamps have to get in their own way to hypno or roll 3+s. And when they do sack the ball is in a mess of players and can't be moved away easily.
3. The goal with vamps is not so much to not get sacked ever, it's to make it as hard as you can and then be able to both resack the ball if they get it 'and' you get to punch everyone who based to hypno. Use the st4's to screen so they get 2d blocks on the hypno vamps and keep a tackle player free.
4. It's also pretty shitty luck to get me with vamps twice in a row and I didn't get bad dice :)
5. Good luck!
Posted by BeanBelly on 2024-09-23 09:30:27
I’m also struggling against Vamps. Best I’ve come up with is hold ball deep and wait for a chance to pass or hand off and move it upfield fast.
Potentially they are vulnerable to CAS, esp. the Thralls - plus they get bitten.
I’ve made a vamp team, going to give them a proper go, see what I learn.
Potentially they are vulnerable to CAS, esp. the Thralls - plus they get bitten.
I’ve made a vamp team, going to give them a proper go, see what I learn.
Posted by Rawlf on 2024-09-23 09:53:11
Some things that may or may not help:
- Walls instead of screens. It is harder to gaze from TZs, so sticking together makes it harder. Plus a wall is still a wall, even if they are all gazed. Obviously there is are drawbacks to this.
If you spread your players out, it is especially easy to gaze them and gains your oppo a lot of maneuvering space, too.
- Score quick. Your go-to strategy is the 2-1 grind. But Vamps are even stronger on defense than on offense. So don't let them play their beloved defense, make them carry the ball. They will likely just score, but you can work to give them a chance to fail it. Keeping one of those random strip ball you keep getting can help with it.
- Walls instead of screens. It is harder to gaze from TZs, so sticking together makes it harder. Plus a wall is still a wall, even if they are all gazed. Obviously there is are drawbacks to this.
If you spread your players out, it is especially easy to gaze them and gains your oppo a lot of maneuvering space, too.
- Score quick. Your go-to strategy is the 2-1 grind. But Vamps are even stronger on defense than on offense. So don't let them play their beloved defense, make them carry the ball. They will likely just score, but you can work to give them a chance to fail it. Keeping one of those random strip ball you keep getting can help with it.
Posted by Sp00keh on 2024-09-23 11:49:10
Yea, every time vampires score, they're giving the ball back so are returning to being on defense
But it also means they're giving away 3 blocks and a blitz as well
Anyway, vampires aren't an auto-win button superteam, they are complicated and not easy
Hence their winrates are in the bottom third of all rosters, at 47% https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2024
Basically how their games tend to go is:
See a chance to attack the ball, roll the big long sequence of dice
If it works, they steal the ball and get a TD
If it doesn't work, they suffer by getting bashed back, and will want to retry again later
Each attack may have a low-to-middling % chance of working, so many will fail, but eventually they'll probably manage it
As the game continues, they will lose rerolls and thralls and possibly vampires, and grow weaker, less able to make the attacks
So it's a bit of a race against time. They start strong but get weaker over the match
If they get the early sacks in successfully, it means they can ease off a bit and not chase every desperate opportunity, and be more selective and stand-off a bit. It also can be crushing for the morale of the other coach (as you've seen)
If they don't get the early sacks in, the opponent is probably defending hard and the dice have not been kind, and then the vamps will probably struggle and get attritioned
Anyway, I'd suggest making a vampire team and giving it a go. It will quickly let you see that the team is not as autowin as you think it is :)
But it also means they're giving away 3 blocks and a blitz as well
Anyway, vampires aren't an auto-win button superteam, they are complicated and not easy
Hence their winrates are in the bottom third of all rosters, at 47% https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2024
Basically how their games tend to go is:
See a chance to attack the ball, roll the big long sequence of dice
If it works, they steal the ball and get a TD
If it doesn't work, they suffer by getting bashed back, and will want to retry again later
Each attack may have a low-to-middling % chance of working, so many will fail, but eventually they'll probably manage it
As the game continues, they will lose rerolls and thralls and possibly vampires, and grow weaker, less able to make the attacks
So it's a bit of a race against time. They start strong but get weaker over the match
If they get the early sacks in successfully, it means they can ease off a bit and not chase every desperate opportunity, and be more selective and stand-off a bit. It also can be crushing for the morale of the other coach (as you've seen)
If they don't get the early sacks in, the opponent is probably defending hard and the dice have not been kind, and then the vamps will probably struggle and get attritioned
Anyway, I'd suggest making a vampire team and giving it a go. It will quickly let you see that the team is not as autowin as you think it is :)
Posted by SideshowBob on 2024-09-23 12:08:22
Good posts here. To add to Sp00kehs excellent post:
-If you can afford it, base every vampire with lineman type players. So when they go for the big attack they need to roll as many dice as possible. Hopefully they spend most of their rerolls which might cripple them for the rest of the half.
-If you can afford it, base every vampire with lineman type players. So when they go for the big attack they need to roll as many dice as possible. Hopefully they spend most of their rerolls which might cripple them for the rest of the half.
Posted by Jogrenaught on 2024-09-23 14:19:28
What Im getting is base with linemen, and use the higher str guys to screen. That makes sense.
Im also getting that they make one or two early or big hypno attacks to sack the BC, and you just kind of have to plan for their success because its going to happen.
I'll give these things a shot. Thank you much.
Just for clarification, I have not given vampires an "auto-win" tag. Theyre too good, period. But in the same way that a gutter runner is too cheap. This is an unfair game and we agree to play it under these conditions.
Artemis - I need you to roll more than 5 skulls in 2 consecutive games. They dont even have to matter, you could pair them with other dice and still win and Im cool with it. At least I can look at the stats and see you dont always roll like a freak :). I kid of course. I dont really mind losing to you because I usually learn something by watching. The vampire games just forced me to reach out because I ran out of different things to try.
Im also getting that they make one or two early or big hypno attacks to sack the BC, and you just kind of have to plan for their success because its going to happen.
I'll give these things a shot. Thank you much.
Just for clarification, I have not given vampires an "auto-win" tag. Theyre too good, period. But in the same way that a gutter runner is too cheap. This is an unfair game and we agree to play it under these conditions.
Artemis - I need you to roll more than 5 skulls in 2 consecutive games. They dont even have to matter, you could pair them with other dice and still win and Im cool with it. At least I can look at the stats and see you dont always roll like a freak :). I kid of course. I dont really mind losing to you because I usually learn something by watching. The vampire games just forced me to reach out because I ran out of different things to try.
Posted by dieuraskel on 2024-09-23 19:52:28
Every time I have played new Vamps, it feels like I do better if I can grind them out. If you have a team already designed to bash an opponent into the ground, kick to them then try to kill as many Thralls as possible, and attack Runners if you can get the chance without throwing too many dice. Force them to play offense while you assault their Thralls, and hope you kill enough so you can easily score on the 2nd half.