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2019-10-19 12:48:01
15 votes, rating 4.7
15 votes, rating 4.7
Gutted piling on is back
For me, anything that lowers the skill level and leads to more unavoidable dicings cannot be good for the site and, for me, that is exactly what piling on does, even if it does now cost a reroll. Very disappointed.
Comments
Posted by Kondor on 2019-10-19 13:21:42
Can Pro be used rather than a team reroll with PO? I assume so but....
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2019-10-19 13:23:58
Well, since I've some time during h/t during the rubgy ;) ...
In principle, I agree. I'm not a fan at all of a skill that has, in my opinion, been broken in implementation in every single edition of Blood Bowl it has featured in, either being too strong or too weak. Its current re-implemented status makes it a trap skill - it consumes a team reroll, which means it is not only promoting a dice/risk gamble and at the same time actually reducing ones ability to revert risk in future turns. As such it also promotes bloat: the skill either requires you use it a minimal number of times (in which case it is 20tv of bloat on its own) or that you carry additional rerolls to use it.
I've seen some people say they might take it because of a key PO turning a game, or simply for late game gathering spp in garbage time. Both of these are actually things that made people loathe the original PO, and the former usage there is somewhat of a questionable reason to take it, because with only one player with piling on, you really can't guarantee the position supporting that, which brings us back to bloat.
In my own personal belief, the only reason anyone would really be considering taking piling on strongly, and the only reason it might have any real effect on games is because FUMBBL's current ruleset allows teams to bloat to the point where bashers have "free slots" to take PO in, and can stack rerolls to the point of redundancy without fear - both because of lack of inducements and no mechanism to control team growth.
In principle, I agree. I'm not a fan at all of a skill that has, in my opinion, been broken in implementation in every single edition of Blood Bowl it has featured in, either being too strong or too weak. Its current re-implemented status makes it a trap skill - it consumes a team reroll, which means it is not only promoting a dice/risk gamble and at the same time actually reducing ones ability to revert risk in future turns. As such it also promotes bloat: the skill either requires you use it a minimal number of times (in which case it is 20tv of bloat on its own) or that you carry additional rerolls to use it.
I've seen some people say they might take it because of a key PO turning a game, or simply for late game gathering spp in garbage time. Both of these are actually things that made people loathe the original PO, and the former usage there is somewhat of a questionable reason to take it, because with only one player with piling on, you really can't guarantee the position supporting that, which brings us back to bloat.
In my own personal belief, the only reason anyone would really be considering taking piling on strongly, and the only reason it might have any real effect on games is because FUMBBL's current ruleset allows teams to bloat to the point where bashers have "free slots" to take PO in, and can stack rerolls to the point of redundancy without fear - both because of lack of inducements and no mechanism to control team growth.
Posted by Garion on 2019-10-19 13:42:00
What AD says.
And no pro can't be used.
And no pro can't be used.
Posted by koadah on 2019-10-19 13:46:05
Re-open the CPOMB thread!!!! :D
Posted by PrivateNiCeGuY on 2019-10-19 13:48:29
I'm with AD.
If we get the "new Wizards" and other Inducements into the site then the Bloat of carrying 8rr´s to be able to Pile On will be harder to pull of.
The sad time is when ppl take only to spite kill players but you can do that with DP and foul yourself out of a game too. So that's not really changing too much. And at least those teams will be blotier and face the bigger kill teams without wasteful skills that will really hurt.
Not a fan of it but I think Christer is doing the correct adjustment and follow the rules of the game ass written.
If we get the "new Wizards" and other Inducements into the site then the Bloat of carrying 8rr´s to be able to Pile On will be harder to pull of.
The sad time is when ppl take only to spite kill players but you can do that with DP and foul yourself out of a game too. So that's not really changing too much. And at least those teams will be blotier and face the bigger kill teams without wasteful skills that will really hurt.
Not a fan of it but I think Christer is doing the correct adjustment and follow the rules of the game ass written.
Posted by MattDakka on 2019-10-19 13:58:59
I agree with Malmir and ArrestedDevelopment, well put.
I have never been a fan of PO, in my opinion it shifts the gameplay towards dumb dice rolling.
I know that this is a dice game and we all, as BB coaches, like to roll dice, of course, but in my opinion Casualties should be the consequence of quantity of blocks, not of a single killer re-rolling AV/injury dice with PO.
The new PO is clearly weaker than the CRP one, but nonetheless it's a step in the wrong direction.
That said, I'm curious about how the meta will change after PO reintroduction.
Will teams load up with re-rolls? Will there be several PO killers or just 1 on a team?
I have never been a fan of PO, in my opinion it shifts the gameplay towards dumb dice rolling.
I know that this is a dice game and we all, as BB coaches, like to roll dice, of course, but in my opinion Casualties should be the consequence of quantity of blocks, not of a single killer re-rolling AV/injury dice with PO.
The new PO is clearly weaker than the CRP one, but nonetheless it's a step in the wrong direction.
That said, I'm curious about how the meta will change after PO reintroduction.
Will teams load up with re-rolls? Will there be several PO killers or just 1 on a team?
Posted by Christy on 2019-10-19 14:44:17
80-90K of TV to use pile once each half seems weak. I can't see it being worth it.
Having said that I don't think it adds anything in keeping it.
Having said that I don't think it adds anything in keeping it.
Posted by SpecialOne on 2019-10-19 16:05:55
If someone stacks up on RR in order to use PO much, then feel free. I will happily use those inducements I get from the RR on an extra APO + Bribe. Then lets dance! ;)
On a more serious note. I don't think it will change much from now. Maybe 1 PO pr. team, and still way better than the old rules.
On a more serious note. I don't think it will change much from now. Maybe 1 PO pr. team, and still way better than the old rules.
Posted by Malmir on 2019-10-19 16:22:43
I agree it's definitely better than the old rules - I'd still rather it had remained defunct though.
Posted by erased000047 on 2019-10-19 16:39:55
Anytime you are using a RR for something that didn't cause a TO is wasteful.
Posted by MattDakka on 2019-10-19 16:50:45
Not wasteful if you remove a key player with that rr and you don't have other important actions to do.
Posted by koadah on 2019-10-19 17:30:29
Certain players are well worth a RR to get rid of. The skill is in setting up the shot at that player.
I wouldn't expect it to be a big issue beyond your massive Majors teams.
I'll probably just put more emphasis on TW2000 max events.
Seeing as we don't have seasons or I believe, all the inducements. ;)
I wouldn't expect it to be a big issue beyond your massive Majors teams.
I'll probably just put more emphasis on TW2000 max events.
Seeing as we don't have seasons or I believe, all the inducements. ;)
Posted by Mattius on 2019-10-19 19:34:22
I'm well known to be a hater of PO. But i'm not too worried this time around. I think once wizards are back (which they should be?) then big Nurgle/Chaos teams will have to really re think!
Posted by The_Carthaginian on 2019-10-19 19:58:01
I think the game is better without PO.
Posted by mrt1212 on 2019-10-19 20:34:56
On the one hand, let people waste their skills and rerolls on PO because that can only benefit me over time as a pointy ear bastard.
On the other hand, Kenthis was cancer and this is like picking up smoking after getting lung cancer.
On the other hand, Kenthis was cancer and this is like picking up smoking after getting lung cancer.
Posted by ClayInfinity on 2019-10-19 22:42:03
With the seasons/rebuy rules, PO becomes very bloaty and not very long lasting... in perpetual fumbbl, it becomes more of a thing, but like others have said, if you want to bloat your TV with RR's and PO skills, feel free as I run around you and out score you.
Posted by stej on 2019-10-20 00:07:23
Should have kept the old version but made it a big guy only skill.
Posted by awambawamb on 2019-10-20 00:53:59
-St to opponent armor roll, that was the only way
Posted by pythrr on 2019-10-20 06:44:17
Can we have our PO's back that got turned into Jugga? PWEASE:
Posted by datom on 2019-10-20 13:06:34
I suppose the thing is what does it do in a matchmaking environment, something else GW doesn't really care about? I can see it being pretty useful on low tv chorf, Norse or dorfs late in a drive . Like, what else do you need your rerolls for? And it'll be most effective when you're already steamrollering.
Posted by MattDakka on 2019-10-20 14:29:00
PO as Big Guys' only skill could have been fine to boost them a bit.
Posted by PaddyMick on 2019-10-20 17:47:56
Removing it was a nerf for Ogres and this hardly redresses that. Should have been big guys only imo and not cost a rr, but im biased.