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2013-08-07 17:27:07
36 votes, rating 3.1
36 votes, rating 3.1
Min/Max Guide Link
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10qpkp1kBDwWsPBk_r7g4YSCi8cXK2-u2I-nWqFkGXIA/edit?usp=sharing
Since it was removed due to unsuitability as a wiki, I have taken advice on board and posted it as a Google Doc for anyone interested in reading it.
Furthermore, I am rather confused as to how I was insinuating the potential actions of admins. I stated that Christer had not taken any action on Min/max directly (fact) and that he is the sole owner of FUMBBL (fact). Later, I went on to praise the admins for their even-handedness regarding rules infractions, and their professionality. Perhaps I was misinterpreted but neither of these assume knowledge of an admin's personal stance towards Min/max.
Feel free to comment either here or on the Google Doc :)
Since it was removed due to unsuitability as a wiki, I have taken advice on board and posted it as a Google Doc for anyone interested in reading it.
Furthermore, I am rather confused as to how I was insinuating the potential actions of admins. I stated that Christer had not taken any action on Min/max directly (fact) and that he is the sole owner of FUMBBL (fact). Later, I went on to praise the admins for their even-handedness regarding rules infractions, and their professionality. Perhaps I was misinterpreted but neither of these assume knowledge of an admin's personal stance towards Min/max.
Feel free to comment either here or on the Google Doc :)
Comments
Posted by Azure on 2013-08-07 17:33:43
See you late bladder! I am certain that in your last blog, it was mentioned that reposting this would cause more than just it to disappear...
Posted by cameronhawkins on 2013-08-07 17:43:20
If you are concerned with communicating your ideas, rather than enlarging your FUMBBL persona, I would rewrite it to remove all references to you personally. People find it easier to address ideas if they are not infused with the personality of someone who has upset them.
For example, sentences like "I have fairly often been called out in Ranked...." No one cares about what has happened to you. They might, however, care about what might happen to them. So you should say things like "Coaches or admins who prefer theme-oriented team-building may fail to appreciate this win-at-all-costs playstyle. You may also raise the ire of your opponents if you play a damage-heavy build while they lack the necessary skills to protect themselves." etc...
For example, sentences like "I have fairly often been called out in Ranked...." No one cares about what has happened to you. They might, however, care about what might happen to them. So you should say things like "Coaches or admins who prefer theme-oriented team-building may fail to appreciate this win-at-all-costs playstyle. You may also raise the ire of your opponents if you play a damage-heavy build while they lack the necessary skills to protect themselves." etc...
Posted by pythrr on 2013-08-07 17:43:21
ban ban ban ban ban bam (hammah!)
Posted by krysskroz on 2013-08-07 17:53:08
Why are the rules not being changed to prevent this type of build from happening? No one should be banned for playing in a style, nor teaching others how to, that the current rule set not only allows, but encourages.
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2013-08-07 17:53:46
Haters gonna hat
Posted by blader4411 on 2013-08-07 17:59:36
@Cameronhawkins: I'll take that into account, cheers.
@Krysskroz: No one has been banned for playing a min/max build. A few bans which garnered past attention were min/max teams, but banned/retired due to breaking the rules elsewhere (i.e. less than 10 players on the team and 500,000 in the bank).
@Pythrr: Go back to Soviet Poland! :P
@Krysskroz: No one has been banned for playing a min/max build. A few bans which garnered past attention were min/max teams, but banned/retired due to breaking the rules elsewhere (i.e. less than 10 players on the team and 500,000 in the bank).
@Pythrr: Go back to Soviet Poland! :P
Posted by C3I2 on 2013-08-07 18:00:12
And perhaps that person would read it this time, instead of listening to Mouse, Azure.
Anyway, this guide is fairly accurate, for that very narrow definition of MinMax, he uses.
I tend to use a wider definition that includes say a well known Pro-Elf team with all skills on 5 players, and no or almost no-skills on the remaining players. You know, when you minimize on some players (that can get blitzed, or blocked at kickoff) and give all TV-boosting skills to the other 5 players.
Anyway, this guide is fairly accurate, for that very narrow definition of MinMax, he uses.
I tend to use a wider definition that includes say a well known Pro-Elf team with all skills on 5 players, and no or almost no-skills on the remaining players. You know, when you minimize on some players (that can get blitzed, or blocked at kickoff) and give all TV-boosting skills to the other 5 players.
Posted by pythrr on 2013-08-07 18:09:44
C3po - Mouse and Azure are two of the most respected figures on fumbbl. Who are you to say no one should listen to them. In fact, who _are_ you again?
Posted by uuni on 2013-08-07 18:12:20
Good guide.
I think you could ask how Plasmoid thinks of it.
I think the language and the idea in the version I read was quite level-headed.
Good luck & Have fun!
I think you could ask how Plasmoid thinks of it.
I think the language and the idea in the version I read was quite level-headed.
Good luck & Have fun!
Posted by blader4411 on 2013-08-07 18:17:10
I haven't changed anything to my knowledge, other than the formatting of course. If anyone read both versions and something got lost feel free to inform me.
@uuni: Plasmoid is still active?
@uuni: Plasmoid is still active?
Posted by Jackamon on 2013-08-07 18:34:40
I completely despise Min/Max. It's the main reason I don't play in the box (so thanks for taking that away from me guys). Promoting a play style that completely sticks a middle finger up to opponents fun is not a good thing. Why can't people just play with evenly matched teams?!
Posted by cameronhawkins on 2013-08-07 18:45:35
I completely despise Wood Elves. It's the main reason I don't play in ranked (so thanks for taking that away from me guys). Promoting a team that completely sticks a middle finger up to opponents fun is not a good thing. Why can't people just play with evenly matched teams?!
Wardancers spoil my skink fun and all Wood Elf guides must be stricken from the site!
Wardancers spoil my skink fun and all Wood Elf guides must be stricken from the site!
Posted by Jackamon on 2013-08-07 18:52:51
@cameronhawkins You have the option of not playing Wood Elves in Ranked, so don't compare a race you don't like playing with a team build that is designed to exploit the box in order to win at all costs.
Posted by Dolls on 2013-08-07 18:57:29
C3I2: cheers :D
Posted by cameronhawkins on 2013-08-07 19:10:18
@Jackamon: Yes, I could, but I would also add Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, and Dark Elves to that list. It's not that I have trouble winning against these races–– it's simply that I find the matches utterly boring. And not accepting any of these races cuts out about 80% of the teams I see on the GF in ranked.
So, yes, we both have the option of avoiding the thing we dislike. It simply means that we need to be content narrowing the circumstances under which we're willing to play. I do this by avoiding Ranked, you do it by avoiding Black Box. So why are we making this a personal/ethical issue?
So, yes, we both have the option of avoiding the thing we dislike. It simply means that we need to be content narrowing the circumstances under which we're willing to play. I do this by avoiding Ranked, you do it by avoiding Black Box. So why are we making this a personal/ethical issue?
Posted by Beerox on 2013-08-07 20:28:48
Maybe you could post another blog on how to steal from babies.
Posted by paulhicks on 2013-08-07 21:54:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLezXLuvNgc
Posted by FTJUK on 2013-08-07 23:55:02
Wow... Certainly a different perspective on how to play BB in comparison to my approach. Nice of you to advise that min/maxers shouldn't prolong the agony though!
Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2013-08-08 02:16:20
Keep hammering those nails into the coffin boys. :P
Posted by Nelphine on 2013-08-08 07:31:53
By the way, I personally feel that there is nothing more minmaxed than a legendary coach playing an agi 4 team, an av 9 team, an amazon team at low tv in the box, or a clawpomb team. This is followed closely by superstar coaches who do the same, except that a super star coach who plays clawpomb and uses all of the teams positionals is not minmaxing.
Minmaxing is about team AND about coach. Trying to say that a terrible coach who plays this particular version of minmaxing is somehow worse than an amazing coach playing an agi 4 team is simply because new players to the site don't understand that they have the same shot at winning against both coaches.
(As a note: Specifically due to the new coach to the site influence, I am firmly against the type of minmaxing described by blader, while I am not against the kind I have described in this post. I just don't see one as actually worse in terms of a coach trying to gain an advantage.)
Minmaxing is about team AND about coach. Trying to say that a terrible coach who plays this particular version of minmaxing is somehow worse than an amazing coach playing an agi 4 team is simply because new players to the site don't understand that they have the same shot at winning against both coaches.
(As a note: Specifically due to the new coach to the site influence, I am firmly against the type of minmaxing described by blader, while I am not against the kind I have described in this post. I just don't see one as actually worse in terms of a coach trying to gain an advantage.)
Posted by Verminardo on 2013-08-08 12:00:55
TL;DR