Posted by Fuel on 2011-06-18 15:14:43

hmm.. fluffy stupidiness? dont see it. somehow in Warhhammer fantasy battles no ogre unit has stupidity rule. theyre not stupid. only for Blood bowl they made them stupid for obviuos reasons. i would saybring back ogre alowance as in lrb4 and they will be fine.

Posted by Kinks on 2011-06-18 15:51:19

Maximum of 8 ogres per team is what is required to bring them in line with other stunty teams.

Introducing the Right Stuff negates Tackle on blocks rule would further make all stunty teams more competitive.

Posted by pythrr on 2011-06-18 15:57:12

only stupid ogres would play BB? the clever ones all join WFB armies...

well, maybe not so clever....

Posted by lizvis on 2011-06-18 16:05:01

emo

Posted by BillBrasky on 2011-06-18 16:40:01

How about 6 Ogres, 12 goblins, and







1 DRAGON OGRE ROOSTER!!!!!

Posted by Lill-Leif on 2011-06-18 19:21:01

Why not just keep the LRB4 ogre roster? It's not like they were OP and dominated the majors. In LRB6 they are a complete joke.

Posted by Balle2000 on 2011-06-18 19:41:49

there are some good arguments here. but if I were to take a step back, and take a somber look at it, I think we have to agree with Bill here...

Posted by Geenimetsuri on 2011-06-18 20:03:39

What they need is cheaper snotlings.

They are expendable but at 20k too expensive. :-)

Posted by Fela on 2011-06-18 20:11:52

Yep, they're a complete joke now.

So..why exactly is it a bad thing that a joke roster is now a joke roster?

Posted by jimimothybodles on 2011-06-18 20:32:00

this little "emo" bloggorant isn't really about snotlings though... yeh, they're crap. that's fine.

it's that the team is called "Ogre Team" and the ogres are the even worse than the snotlings at times. i think having ST1 AV5 linemen will always make this team a joke team.... that doesn't mean we can't try to make the ogres a little less crap! :)

Posted by lizvis on 2011-06-18 21:48:48

GW couldn't lure anyone into buying ogres when the roster was at 12 ogres/team (fyi: 12 ogres from specialty games on GW's website was about 200 USD). so now they're going to try to see if anyone will bite if they only try to sell six ogres.

it was never about ogres being too OP or anything like that. GW doesn't give a crap about fumbbl, it's about selling figs and making money.

Posted by Wraith on 2011-06-19 04:32:06

Bonehead isn't really the ogre roster problem, the problem is that ogres need a bunch of levels (as well as a liberal amount of doubles) to be effective at winning consistently.

Ogres are unreliable normally (bonehead), without reasonable access to the skills that improve reliability (like block/wrestle and tackle), ogres get the double whammy. To make matters worse, Snotlings make it a triple whammy, because they're terrible.

Ogre rosters should be...

0-1 Ogre Bruiser (5 5 2 10) Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw Team-mate, Bonehead - GS - 160k
0-6 ogre Bull (5 5 2 9) Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw Team-mate, Bonehead - S - 140k)
0-16 Gnoblar (6 1 3 7) Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff - A - 30k

The bruiser gives you a somewhat reliable player via general access. Gnoblar are more fitting in the lore and a bit better than Snots.

Posted by jimimothybodles on 2011-06-19 13:30:40

well i don't think the gnoblars should be that big... i mean.. the rules already invented a new skill for the snotlings (Titchy) and they're the only ones with it! so Gnoblars would need to retain it... i think just having MV6 snotlings would be a good deal. they might actually be able to reach the end zone off a TTM play!

anyway, what you're suggesting with have 1 extra ogre with general skill access, still doesn't help the other 6 you've got from being terrible.

Posted by Geenimetsuri on 2011-06-19 14:16:48

The problem is that snotlings are removed from the game too easily...so let's add more snotlings!

0-6 Ogres
0-20 Snotlings @ 10k

That way they could be played as the fodder they are based on their stats.

With 10 snotling thick reserve you could feed them to your opponent, throw them around for fun and tie down every player you need: They're fodder, they're meant to suffer.

Alternative would be to give them regen and maintain the price @ 20k, but that's just another failed die roll and ogres already have them plenty enough with their boneheads.


btw. Titchy isn't a new invention.

Posted by Wraith on 2011-06-19 16:51:19

That one extra ogre makes the roster a lot more competitive though (due to the block and tackle access without needing a pair of doubles). The 6 other ogres aren't "terrible" either, they're powerful but unreliable. This is why giving them Gnoblar is also important... AV7 will make the roster's linemen a bit more reliable, I.E. it won't be just ogres on the field by the second half because Snotlings are way too easily removed from the pitch.

Besides, Gnoblar fit ogre lore much better, supposedly every ogre has a pet Gnoblar, meanwhile Snotlings are more Orc and Goblin lore-ish.

Posted by Lobossumi on 2011-06-19 18:17:56

That Gnoblar idea would actually be a decent one. Gnoblars are a big part of WFB Ogre Kingdoms armies anyway. Even without the "extra" ogre the gnoblars would help a lot more than 10 more snots.

Posted by Geenimetsuri on 2011-06-20 12:40:23

Sure, gnoblars would help more - there's no denying that.

It would just destroy the current concept of completely expendable linos (20k is still IMO too expensive) and hazard blockers.

One thing ogres are now is something completely different, I wouldn't turn them into "pumped up" 'flings.

Posted by Wraith on 2011-06-20 19:02:14

Remember that Snotlings and Gnoblars both have ST1. So each will see primarily 3dbs and that alone makes them significantly more fragile than Halflings or Goblins. I.E. 3db is significantly better than 2db, more knockdowns equals more injuries. Ogres have more bigguys than the other stunty rosters, so their stunties should be worse, but ST1 and AV5 is entirely useless.

All stunty rosters suffer the same problem though, limited general access, this makes it very hard to be competitive. These teams need to be very lucky to be competitive. I've played ogres quite a bit and done pretty well with them, but there's a huge difference in how competitive I am, tied directly into the number of doubles that I've rolled. I.E. the more doubles rolled, the more reliably I win matches.

Posted by jimimothybodles on 2011-06-21 00:37:52

So what we're saying is: ogres are too unreliable.

so my suggested change to bonehead rule above, tries to make them a bit more reliable,(even at TV1000 with no skills!) but no one has commented on that idea, and everybody is just talking a load of old gnoblars.

:)

Posted by Lobossumi on 2011-06-21 00:39:31

No reason to change the bonehead rule when thats not where the problem is.

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gnoblar

Posted by jimimothybodles on 2011-06-21 01:14:03

that is indeed fascinating fluff about gnoblars.

however my original point is that the unreliability of ogres IS where the problem is... but i don't think anyone agrees. so i'll stop going on about it!

Posted by Lobossumi on 2011-06-21 02:05:13

Ogres were a decent team when there was 12 ogres and little guys you could actually count on. No i'm the first to say that 12 ogres might be a bit too much so dropping that to 6 is justified.
But the snotlings are just utterly useless. Even a normal lvl 1 human lineman gets 3db on them and gets 3 chances of getting pow. Let alone someone with block and/or tackle. With av7, or even av6, there would be much more little guys on the field after couple first rounds to suck up opponents attention to let ogres go bonehead in peace.

Posted by Wraith on 2011-06-21 02:52:47

Changing bonehead won't really make ogres much more competitive (team RRs take the sting out of key BH failures). Ogres need at least one positional to have general access, hoping to get two doubles on the same player is not realistic.