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2015-12-16 14:50:59
12 votes, rating 5.5
12 votes, rating 5.5
A series of Tactical Discussions.
I have been thinking of trying to start up a series of threads that touche on a certain part of Blood Bowl play. (Strategies, Counter Strategies, On pitch decisions, how to use lesser used skills, etc.)
My thought would be to have it basically be a discussion where experienced coaches discuss how they approach the topic and less experienced coaches can ask questions pertaining to the topic.
Basically the goal would be to have threads in the Tactics section of the forum that are more generally useful than the typical skill choice thread.
The two main ways I have thought of doing this is either I just post a general topic every so often and we see if it gets talked about or I try and get some experienced coaches to volunteer to do a sort of roundtable discussion on the topics either through a chat or a private message thread and then I would post the discussion to the forum for people to read and respond to. I prefer the second option as I think it sounds like a more consistent way to get discussion going.
This blog is just to gauge interest and see what kind of topics people would like to have discussed.
My thought would be to have it basically be a discussion where experienced coaches discuss how they approach the topic and less experienced coaches can ask questions pertaining to the topic.
Basically the goal would be to have threads in the Tactics section of the forum that are more generally useful than the typical skill choice thread.
The two main ways I have thought of doing this is either I just post a general topic every so often and we see if it gets talked about or I try and get some experienced coaches to volunteer to do a sort of roundtable discussion on the topics either through a chat or a private message thread and then I would post the discussion to the forum for people to read and respond to. I prefer the second option as I think it sounds like a more consistent way to get discussion going.
This blog is just to gauge interest and see what kind of topics people would like to have discussed.
Comments
Posted by Stonetroll on 2015-12-16 15:22:13
Sounds like a legit article for the next GLN, maybe you should contact Purplegoo if you find a good panel/group/whatever.
Posted by bghandras on 2015-12-16 15:38:10
I would participate if you need my input. I would prefer a discussion type of thing, and you (or a moderator) summarize up the points later for public use.
Posted by bghandras on 2015-12-16 15:40:06
Moderation and summary is important, as the "language", and understanding of coaches may be different, and other aspects might be important to different coaches. (For example i could discuss hours about miniscule advantage, like how to improve 10% failure chance to 9% chance, while i guess there are lower hanging fruits there for others.)
Posted by keggiemckill on 2015-12-16 15:40:32
A question can be submitted, and then a bunch of experienced coaches discuss it. Then it's put into article form.
Posted by cdassak on 2015-12-16 16:01:49
Good idea!
Posted by Bazakastine on 2015-12-16 16:31:44
bghandras I would love your input for sure. I also agree about the need for Moderation/Summary and meant to mention that that's something I would be doing when I made the post.
Stonetroll your right. I am not sure why I didn't think of the GLN but that would be a great platform for this.
Stonetroll your right. I am not sure why I didn't think of the GLN but that would be a great platform for this.
Posted by ianuk77 on 2015-12-16 17:16:08
for those of us that are crap (ie me), this would be very welcome.
If i could throw in a suggestion, for me at least, I would like to see how the experienced guys would deal with a certain scenario in game.
More specifically if a fumbll screen shot was provided and the scenario laid out, how would they play it and why. Im not talking about how do you score a TD from here or set up for a 1TD etc but more mundane scenarios that sometimes i literally dont know how to approach, ie I have the ball in hand but no way to get the ball safe/score or into a cage ( a recent scenario for me). Sure, there may be no way of not leaving a blitzing opportunity next turn, but how do you approach mitigating it and whats the thinking etc..
just my two pennies worth, but i think it would be interesting seeing the different responses and approaches the big-win-percentage hitters propose.
If i could throw in a suggestion, for me at least, I would like to see how the experienced guys would deal with a certain scenario in game.
More specifically if a fumbll screen shot was provided and the scenario laid out, how would they play it and why. Im not talking about how do you score a TD from here or set up for a 1TD etc but more mundane scenarios that sometimes i literally dont know how to approach, ie I have the ball in hand but no way to get the ball safe/score or into a cage ( a recent scenario for me). Sure, there may be no way of not leaving a blitzing opportunity next turn, but how do you approach mitigating it and whats the thinking etc..
just my two pennies worth, but i think it would be interesting seeing the different responses and approaches the big-win-percentage hitters propose.
Posted by bghandras on 2015-12-16 17:32:05
Kind of a teaser, a short answer to the specific scenaryo.
If you cant avoid a blitzsack, then you can do the following:
- Mitigate the number of dice on the blitz. If it is a 1d block, you are better off than on a 2d block.
- Mitigate the scatter. If you know you will be sacked, you could still control somewhat the direction of the blitz, thus the direction of the scatter. you can then work from them, set the preferred area, and protect the preferred area.
- Hopeful. There are situations where you cant do anything about the blitz, and your only chance is that you wont be sacked. In this case assume that the opponent will fail, and position in the way that you maximize your chances in case the sacking attempt fail. That may mean paving a path, and protect that, or making sure that the baller cant be cornered by the opponent.
These are just examples, but i hope it helps giving a vision in this scenario.
If you cant avoid a blitzsack, then you can do the following:
- Mitigate the number of dice on the blitz. If it is a 1d block, you are better off than on a 2d block.
- Mitigate the scatter. If you know you will be sacked, you could still control somewhat the direction of the blitz, thus the direction of the scatter. you can then work from them, set the preferred area, and protect the preferred area.
- Hopeful. There are situations where you cant do anything about the blitz, and your only chance is that you wont be sacked. In this case assume that the opponent will fail, and position in the way that you maximize your chances in case the sacking attempt fail. That may mean paving a path, and protect that, or making sure that the baller cant be cornered by the opponent.
These are just examples, but i hope it helps giving a vision in this scenario.
Posted by licker on 2015-12-16 18:44:47
Not bad advice, but better advice is to loudly complain about the dice and how unfair the game has been *before* your opponent chooses the blitz.
Nuffle will reward you properly if you just complain loudly enough.
Nuffle will reward you properly if you just complain loudly enough.
Posted by Malmir on 2015-12-16 19:31:10
To add to Bghandras' point, it's basically all about what you can control and minimising the impact of the stuff you can't control. You also need to prioritise the importance of each aspect before you can decide on your optimal play. Reducing that 10% to 9% might well not be worth it if it tips the balance of another aspect unfavourably.
Posted by PaddyMick on 2015-12-16 19:53:09
If you know you can't avoid the blitz one option is to get rid of the ball ie. punt downfield ('pass ball any square'). Depends on field position, score and time left in the game, but it's a useful thing to know you can do.
Posted by ianuk77 on 2015-12-16 20:09:22
Thanks for the replies. Useful stuff and many options that i kind of contemplated, but perhaps didnt know which side to err on and ended up just fumbling it really. I think thats really the issue, I know the options but the thought process behind it is lacking. Probably lack of experience accounts for alot of that to be fair.
I think as a ongoing forum or series this sort of advice would be fantastic.
I think as a ongoing forum or series this sort of advice would be fantastic.
Posted by Uedder on 2015-12-16 21:33:32
As someone who's in the middle ground between a n00b and a top coach, one aspect of the game that i would really love to discuss is the agile teams defence. You have so many options which are all viable, ranging from a passive double-layer defence and an aggressive cage-busting.
My fav style against bash is the asymmetrical defence (asymmetrical setup, deep kick, try to screen between the ball carrier and the los) which lies somewhere in between the super-aggressive and the passive. It can be very rewarding but may also lead to a very bad drive if it fails, deciding when it's worth to try it and when it's not, for me is essential in a defensive drive, what are the pro's thoughts on agile teams defence? How much are you aggressive and how much passive? When do you push for a steal? How much is the kick important to your plan?
My fav style against bash is the asymmetrical defence (asymmetrical setup, deep kick, try to screen between the ball carrier and the los) which lies somewhere in between the super-aggressive and the passive. It can be very rewarding but may also lead to a very bad drive if it fails, deciding when it's worth to try it and when it's not, for me is essential in a defensive drive, what are the pro's thoughts on agile teams defence? How much are you aggressive and how much passive? When do you push for a steal? How much is the kick important to your plan?
Posted by bghandras on 2015-12-16 22:40:29
The first question is: Do you always need to choose between the 2? In some cases you dont need to. You can do both.
The real point is that you should never be contempt with 1 obvious solution, chances are there is a better one.
The real point is that you should never be contempt with 1 obvious solution, chances are there is a better one.
Posted by Uedder on 2015-12-16 23:12:40
Well, yes balance is key. But let's say you kick deep and there are 4 players downfield while the rest of the opposition takes care of your los and pushes into your half. There you have to make a decision: 1)either try to screen off the downfield ballcarrier ( + 3) from the rest of the team, potentially exposing some of your best to a blitz (because they're the ones who can really get in a position to put pressure), while still covering your half with mostly linemen 2) You commit completely to the screening, with a double layer, thus protecting your most valuables but also leaving your half almost undefended or 3) You stick to your half, make a double layer and do the classic dark elf passive defence, reforming the double screen one step back every turn, eyeing for a chance on the ball.
I think either of this is good in different situations, but what are these situations? What are the things you look at before deciding what strategy to apply?
I think either of this is good in different situations, but what are these situations? What are the things you look at before deciding what strategy to apply?
Posted by PainState on 2015-12-17 03:09:13
How is it possible to have a serious discussion on tactics when this game is decided most of the time by rolling d6? Joking yet we all know every good joke has a kernel of truth.
Posted by thoralf on 2015-12-17 04:48:26
I applaud the initiative, and had a similar idea:
https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=thoralf&id=18134
My own focus would be on simpler situations, since I'm learning the basics. I'm thinking of creating a visual support: a notation for the moves, some ways to draw Xes and Oes, etc. However, I'm still wondering where to organize the screenshots.
Any suggestion would be welcome.
https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=thoralf&id=18134
My own focus would be on simpler situations, since I'm learning the basics. I'm thinking of creating a visual support: a notation for the moves, some ways to draw Xes and Oes, etc. However, I'm still wondering where to organize the screenshots.
Any suggestion would be welcome.
Posted by Bazakastine on 2015-12-18 15:16:05
It does look like there is atleast some interest so I am going to try and get a group of coaches together. If anyone reads this and is interested in being in a roundtable discussion PM me.
Posted by Beanchilla on 2015-12-30 14:51:41
Great idea! I'd love to have some tips that cover when to score and when to try and stall. Great alternative ways to guard the ball besides the standard cagew ould be fantastic as well.
Hope you do the round table! That sounds like it'd be super helpful for someone at my level.
Hope you do the round table! That sounds like it'd be super helpful for someone at my level.