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2021-08-15 04:56:02
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2025-04-24 04:32:24
2 votes, rating 6
2 votes, rating 6
Chainsaw Plus Mighty Blow?
Let me lay out the rules I looked at and then post the question, so you all know I tried to find this on my own.
Add 1 to any Armour or Injury roll made by a player with this skill when an opponent is Knocked Down by this player during a block. Note that you only modify one of the dice rolls, so if you decide to use Mighty Blow to modify the Armour roll, you may not modify the Injury roll as well. ***Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills.***
Chainsaw says NOTHING about MB under itself.
I recently played a game where I blitzed a chainsaw, got a 3 and a 1 for the dice and the +3 chainsaw did not break. But my tree had mighty blow. Should I not be able to apply MB to that AV roll?
I think I should because my player is not the one USING the chainsaw so Im not actually combining it with anything. OR are the rules interpretted to say as the attacker, I am using the opps chainsaw for a +3 so I cannot use my mb with it?
Add 1 to any Armour or Injury roll made by a player with this skill when an opponent is Knocked Down by this player during a block. Note that you only modify one of the dice rolls, so if you decide to use Mighty Blow to modify the Armour roll, you may not modify the Injury roll as well. ***Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills.***
Chainsaw says NOTHING about MB under itself.
I recently played a game where I blitzed a chainsaw, got a 3 and a 1 for the dice and the +3 chainsaw did not break. But my tree had mighty blow. Should I not be able to apply MB to that AV roll?
I think I should because my player is not the one USING the chainsaw so Im not actually combining it with anything. OR are the rules interpretted to say as the attacker, I am using the opps chainsaw for a +3 so I cannot use my mb with it?
Comments
Posted by koadah on 2025-04-24 08:16:57
I'm not a rules lawyer. I'd say that you'd get chainsaw or MB. Not both.
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 09:13:32
The whole situation is complicated and I think currently wrong in client,
But the specific question on does +3 and +1 combine to make +4… I think I’d say yes but there’s no real precedent for it
There’s also nothing that rules it out
See this forum thread https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=33049
But the specific question on does +3 and +1 combine to make +4… I think I’d say yes but there’s no real precedent for it
There’s also nothing that rules it out
See this forum thread https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=33049
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 10:40:19
official FAQ
"Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills"
"Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills"
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 10:41:08
furthermore, if you are blocking a player with Chainsaw, you are required by rules, if you knock him down, to use the Chainsaw rule for rolling the armor, therefore not being able to use MB
Posted by CrisisChris on 2025-04-24 11:43:43
I think the question is still valid, because he is not using the chainsaw himself. It is the chainsaw trait of the opponent, that says
'If this player Falls Over or is Knocked Down, the opposing coach may add +3 to the Armour roll made against the player.'
I do not see why it should not be possible to apply your own MB on the Injury roll.
'If this player Falls Over or is Knocked Down, the opposing coach may add +3 to the Armour roll made against the player.'
I do not see why it should not be possible to apply your own MB on the Injury roll.
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 11:44:19
Chainsaw rule has 2 sections, the first one is for when the chainsaw is hitting another player, it says +3 to armour and you can't modify injury
Second section is for other way round, chainsaw is being hit
It says +3 to armour, and DOESN'T mention can't modify injury
It doesn't say 'required to use chainsaw rule for rolling armour', it just says '+3 is added to the roll'
MB is also +1, and they're not mutually exclusive, so it'd be +4
The wiggle room / interpretation comes in from the MB rule mentioning it can't be used with chainsaw
I read this as being, a player with chainsaw and MB can't use both
And that in the OP example, the chainsaw player is using chainsaw on himself, and the MB treeman is using MB on the chainsaw target
Because it's different players, the MB isn't ruled out
Second section is for other way round, chainsaw is being hit
It says +3 to armour, and DOESN'T mention can't modify injury
It doesn't say 'required to use chainsaw rule for rolling armour', it just says '+3 is added to the roll'
MB is also +1, and they're not mutually exclusive, so it'd be +4
The wiggle room / interpretation comes in from the MB rule mentioning it can't be used with chainsaw
I read this as being, a player with chainsaw and MB can't use both
And that in the OP example, the chainsaw player is using chainsaw on himself, and the MB treeman is using MB on the chainsaw target
Because it's different players, the MB isn't ruled out
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 11:46:31
"Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills"
In other words, I interpret this as not applying here, because the target doesn't have MB, and the treeman doesn't have chainsaw
In other words, I interpret this as not applying here, because the target doesn't have MB, and the treeman doesn't have chainsaw
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 11:48:39
@CrisisChris there's 2 separate questions imo
1- Can you use MB +1 as well as chainsaw +3 on the armour roll against a chainsaw player?
2- Can you use MB +1 on the injury roll against a chainsaw player?
For me it's yes to both
1- Can you use MB +1 as well as chainsaw +3 on the armour roll against a chainsaw player?
2- Can you use MB +1 on the injury roll against a chainsaw player?
For me it's yes to both
Posted by CrisisChris on 2025-04-24 11:50:13
So according to your interpretation - which sounds very solid to me - you could either get a +4 on the AV or a +3 on the AV and a +1 on the Injury roll, right?
Posted by CrisisChris on 2025-04-24 11:52:34
you were a bit faster with your response than I. ;-)
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 11:53:41
@CrisisChris yes thats how I read it
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 11:55:59
Also if a MB + Claw player pows down a chainsaw, then on the armour you could choose:
- Use Claw to lower AV to 8 then +3 on armour
- Use MB and +3 to get +4 on armour
If you didn't yet use MB on armour, you could use it on injury
- Use Claw to lower AV to 8 then +3 on armour
- Use MB and +3 to get +4 on armour
If you didn't yet use MB on armour, you could use it on injury
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 11:58:39
1- Can you use MB +1 as well as chainsaw +3 on the armour roll against a chainsaw player?
No, because when you hit a chainsaw player, when rolling armour, you are using chainsaw rule, so you CANNOT apply MB
2- Can you use MB +1 on the injury roll against a chainsaw player?
as below, no.
The Chainsaw rule states:
A player armed with a chainsaw must attack with it instead of making a block. Roll a D6. On a roll of 2 or more the chainsaw hits the opposing player, but on a roll of 1 it hits the wielder instead! Make an Armour roll for the player hit by the chainsaw, adding 3 to the score. If the roll beats the victim’s Armour value then the victim is knocked down and injured.
So, during a block action, either made by the Chainsaw player or against it, you MUST follow this rule, so add +3 to the armour roll
In addition, add 3 to the Armour roll for Foul action, when the player with chainsaw makes an Armour roll and when an opponent rolls a Skull when blocking him.
The second part of the rule states that if the blocker against the chainsaw player does skull and fail the block still gets the +3 on armour roll
MIGHTY BLOW STATES AS FOLLOW
When an opposition player is Knocked Down as the result of a Block action performed by this player (on its own or as part of a Blitz action), you may modify either the Armour roll or Injury roll by the amount shown in brackets. This modifier may be applied after the roll has been made. This Skill cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw traits.
So, the MB can NEVER be used against a chainsaw player, both on armor or injury roll
No, because when you hit a chainsaw player, when rolling armour, you are using chainsaw rule, so you CANNOT apply MB
2- Can you use MB +1 on the injury roll against a chainsaw player?
as below, no.
The Chainsaw rule states:
A player armed with a chainsaw must attack with it instead of making a block. Roll a D6. On a roll of 2 or more the chainsaw hits the opposing player, but on a roll of 1 it hits the wielder instead! Make an Armour roll for the player hit by the chainsaw, adding 3 to the score. If the roll beats the victim’s Armour value then the victim is knocked down and injured.
So, during a block action, either made by the Chainsaw player or against it, you MUST follow this rule, so add +3 to the armour roll
In addition, add 3 to the Armour roll for Foul action, when the player with chainsaw makes an Armour roll and when an opponent rolls a Skull when blocking him.
The second part of the rule states that if the blocker against the chainsaw player does skull and fail the block still gets the +3 on armour roll
MIGHTY BLOW STATES AS FOLLOW
When an opposition player is Knocked Down as the result of a Block action performed by this player (on its own or as part of a Blitz action), you may modify either the Armour roll or Injury roll by the amount shown in brackets. This modifier may be applied after the roll has been made. This Skill cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw traits.
So, the MB can NEVER be used against a chainsaw player, both on armor or injury roll
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 11:59:49
this because, as Chainsaw is written, is not optional like Dodge (you can always chose to use dodge when defending against a block). Chainsaw rule states that during a block action you must use that ruling for that specific block
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:04:23
@Kozilek "because when you hit a chainsaw player, when rolling armour, you are using chainsaw rule, so you CANNOT apply MB"
Don't agree. What's happening is, you rolled a pow, the player is knocked down
When a chainsaw is pow'd down, +3 is added to the armour roll
That's all.
It doesn't say 'you have to use only the chainsaw rules'
It doesn't say 'you MUST follow this rule'
Don't agree. What's happening is, you rolled a pow, the player is knocked down
When a chainsaw is pow'd down, +3 is added to the armour roll
That's all.
It doesn't say 'you have to use only the chainsaw rules'
It doesn't say 'you MUST follow this rule'
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:08:07
"Chainsaw rule states that during a block action you must use that ruling for that specific block"
Not true- chainsaw is a 'may' rule, which means they could do a normal block action if they want to
Also, that's not even relevant here, as it's the treeman who's doing the block in this example
Not true- chainsaw is a 'may' rule, which means they could do a normal block action if they want to
Also, that's not even relevant here, as it's the treeman who's doing the block in this example
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:14:34
@sp00keh yes it is, on a lot of naf official tournament on tabletop has been rule like this since 2018, don't see why it has to change now without an official FAQ. You cannot chose when you block a chainsaw player to not use the +3
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:15:05
When a player block a chainsaw player, he must use the +3 of the chainsaw rule, therefore he cannot stack MB
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:18:18
https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=774134#:~:text=nope.,you%20immunity%20to%20mighty%20blow.
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:25:02
Chainsaw rule is applied either you have it or not. As long as a player has chainsaw, you must follow that rule. Also, it works like this on NAF tabletop tournament and on BB3 official events so...
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:34:06
"You cannot chose when you block a chainsaw player to not use the +3"
If a chainsaw player is knocked down or pow'd, they get +3 to their armour
I agree with that part, it's not optional, it's part of the chainsaw rule
"therefore he cannot stack MB"
I don't agree with this part. The rule doesn't say that
One rule says +3 and the other says +1 so because they're additive, they'd stack
The MB rule says it can't be used with chainsaw, but the treeman in the example doesn't have chainsaw, so that doesn't apply imo
If a chainsaw player is knocked down or pow'd, they get +3 to their armour
I agree with that part, it's not optional, it's part of the chainsaw rule
"therefore he cannot stack MB"
I don't agree with this part. The rule doesn't say that
One rule says +3 and the other says +1 so because they're additive, they'd stack
The MB rule says it can't be used with chainsaw, but the treeman in the example doesn't have chainsaw, so that doesn't apply imo
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:35:10
"https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=774134#:~:text=nope.,you%20immunity%20to%20mighty%20blow."
I remember that, see my response to it, in that thread
I remember that, see my response to it, in that thread
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:35:55
i think that the problem here is that the Chainsaw rule got a ruling during some official event and from that point on the universal ruling is that a chainsaw player is immune to MB. I have asked now in a chat with NAF to and judges, i'll keep you posted
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:36:48
i know that the chainsaw rule does not say that you cannot stack MB on it, but the MB rule say that you cannot stack it with the Chainsaw rule. And since you are using Chainsaw rule (the +3 armour roll is part of the chainsaw roll) you cannot use MB
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:37:57
Rules aren't exclusive unless they explicitly say so
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:39:30
What I'm getting at is,
The treeman player has MB so gets +1
The chainsaw player has chainsaw so gets +3
Both rules can be active
There's nothing that says otherwise
The treeman player has MB so gets +1
The chainsaw player has chainsaw so gets +3
Both rules can be active
There's nothing that says otherwise
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:41:14
That's the point, you cannot. When the tree block the chainsaw player, he MUST use the part of the chainsaw rule that states "armour roll +3". Since he is using the Chainsaw rule despite not having it, MB does not stack
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 12:43:38
I just got confirmation, when a Chainsaw player is blocked, you cannot use MB against him due the poor writing of the skill. At least, is ruled like this in official events
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:50:54
The treeman isn't using chainsaw rule, though!
Skills don't transfer like this, ever
Treeman's MB doesn't get switched off by this, either
All that happens is, the chainsaw player uses the chainsaw rule to add +3 to his own armour roll because he got knocked down
The tree has MB and the chainsaw has chainsaw, and that's all that's written in the rules
You need much better explaination for this interpretation
+ please share link to official NAF ruling
Skills don't transfer like this, ever
Treeman's MB doesn't get switched off by this, either
All that happens is, the chainsaw player uses the chainsaw rule to add +3 to his own armour roll because he got knocked down
The tree has MB and the chainsaw has chainsaw, and that's all that's written in the rules
You need much better explaination for this interpretation
+ please share link to official NAF ruling
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 12:55:11
If you try and hit a player with Foul Apperance, are you gaining FA yourself? of course not
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 13:00:49
I do not have a link cause i asked on whatsapp, i'll ask them if they can provide an official ruling on the italian community so i'll can send you the link
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 13:02:01
it's not the same rule. IN the chainsaw rule it's clearly stated that when you block a chainsaw player you gain the +3, it's part of the rule.
i think that the most correct ruling would be
you block a chainsaw player
you get the +1 from MB, but no chainsaw bonus
you get the +3 from chainsaw, and MB can only used on injury roll
right now is that if you get the +3, you cannot use MB at all
i think that the most correct ruling would be
you block a chainsaw player
you get the +1 from MB, but no chainsaw bonus
you get the +3 from chainsaw, and MB can only used on injury roll
right now is that if you get the +3, you cannot use MB at all
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:13:31
Yes the +3 happens and it's not optional,
But the treeman doesn't gain the rule, though
The chainsaw victim suffers +3 on his own armour roll, because of his own rules
MB on injury, yes agreed
But the treeman doesn't gain the rule, though
The chainsaw victim suffers +3 on his own armour roll, because of his own rules
MB on injury, yes agreed
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:14:33
"IN the chainsaw rule it's clearly stated that when you block a chainsaw player you gain the +3, it's part of the rule."
We're going round in circles on this part. Please provide quote to illustrate where it says this^
We're going round in circles on this part. Please provide quote to illustrate where it says this^
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 13:18:55
from NEW RECRUIT and BLOODBOWL BASE
"If an opposition player performs a Block action targeting this player and a Player Down! or a POW! result is applied, +3 is added to the Armour roll. If a Both Down result is applied, +3 is added to both Armour rolls."
as you can see, it's not optional
"If an opposition player performs a Block action targeting this player and a Player Down! or a POW! result is applied, +3 is added to the Armour roll. If a Both Down result is applied, +3 is added to both Armour rolls."
as you can see, it's not optional
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:22:19
Ok
But that IS NOT the same thing as the treeman gaining the chainsaw rule
Or being forced to use the chainsaw rule
Or anything else like that
The treeman DOES NOT gain +3 on the armour roll
The treeman is unaffected by this - skills DO NOT transfer
The tree has MB, which gives +1 to the armour roll
The chainsaw has chainsaw, which gives +3 to the armour roll
But that IS NOT the same thing as the treeman gaining the chainsaw rule
Or being forced to use the chainsaw rule
Or anything else like that
The treeman DOES NOT gain +3 on the armour roll
The treeman is unaffected by this - skills DO NOT transfer
The tree has MB, which gives +1 to the armour roll
The chainsaw has chainsaw, which gives +3 to the armour roll
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 13:23:24
Are you applying the +3 armour roll? Yes
the +3 armour roll being applied is part of the Chainsaw rule being used? Yes
therefore, since mighty blow CANNOT BE USED in any istance where chainsaw is involved, you cannot apply it
that's the problem
the +3 armour roll being applied is part of the Chainsaw rule being used? Yes
therefore, since mighty blow CANNOT BE USED in any istance where chainsaw is involved, you cannot apply it
that's the problem
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:25:49
If you knockdown a Ball and Chain player, they recieve an immediate Injury roll
Does that mean you've gained the Ball and Chain skill?
No of course not
Skills do not transfer
Does that mean you've gained the Ball and Chain skill?
No of course not
Skills do not transfer
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:28:16
"since mighty blow CANNOT BE USED in any istance where chainsaw is involved"
The only rule similar to that is: "Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills"
It's possible for different interpretations, but imo this doesn't matter here because the treeman doesn't have chainsaw
The only rule similar to that is: "Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills"
It's possible for different interpretations, but imo this doesn't matter here because the treeman doesn't have chainsaw
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 13:30:36
Does the ball e chain rule give you any modifier to the roll you make? No, it makes you skip the armor roll
Does chainsaw give you a modifier that applies to the roll you make? Yes, it gives you +3
It's a matter of RAW.
It's like a substitution effect that applies in magic the gathering
Right now i'm discussing with an official italian NAF tournament organizator to make an official statement about how this works to clarify it asap.
Until the, i'm afraid the correct interpretation that stands is "chainsaw players are immune to MB" due to a RAW problem
Does chainsaw give you a modifier that applies to the roll you make? Yes, it gives you +3
It's a matter of RAW.
It's like a substitution effect that applies in magic the gathering
Right now i'm discussing with an official italian NAF tournament organizator to make an official statement about how this works to clarify it asap.
Until the, i'm afraid the correct interpretation that stands is "chainsaw players are immune to MB" due to a RAW problem
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:57:03
I think the problem may be the 'you' that you keep saying
'you' as the coach throwing the dice gain +3 on the armour roll yes,
But the treeman as a player is unaffected, it DOES NOT gain +3
It simply doesn't. skills don't transfer.
ball and chain - the rule simply says it makes the ball n chain player suffer an immediate injury roll
The reason why this is relevant, if B&C was made prone by kickoff ref event, it is just immediate injury. There was never any armour roll for you to skip anyway
'you' as the coach throwing the dice gain +3 on the armour roll yes,
But the treeman as a player is unaffected, it DOES NOT gain +3
It simply doesn't. skills don't transfer.
ball and chain - the rule simply says it makes the ball n chain player suffer an immediate injury roll
The reason why this is relevant, if B&C was made prone by kickoff ref event, it is just immediate injury. There was never any armour roll for you to skip anyway
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 13:58:55
The coach throwing the armour dice gains +3 to the roll from chainsaw on the chainsaw player
The coach throwing the armour dice gains +1 to the roll from MB on the treeman
The coach throwing the armour dice gains +1 to the roll from MB on the treeman
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 14:03:30
No, the rule states ""If an opposition player performs a Block etc etc"
opposition player.
They just wrote it badly and tried to fix it on the videogame, since it's a very poor interaction that happens like once in a lifetime
Because it's the player that gets the +3, not "the coach may decide to apply a +3"
opposition player.
They just wrote it badly and tried to fix it on the videogame, since it's a very poor interaction that happens like once in a lifetime
Because it's the player that gets the +3, not "the coach may decide to apply a +3"
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 14:20:29
We're going round in circles
There's no where in the rule that says the treeman gains the +3
The chainsaw player suffers an additional +3 to the armour roll against it because of its own rule
This is nothing to do with the treeman's skills
The treeman has not used the chainsaw rule
Your position needs better justification than this dude
The exact wording from the book is:
"If an opposition player performs a Block action targetting this player and a Player Down! or a POW! result is applied, +3 is added to the armour roll.."
So the treeman got a pow, the chainsaw player then has +3 added to its armour roll
That's all
It doesn't say the treeman is using the chainsaw rule, or anything else
It only says +3 is added to the armour roll
There's no where in the rule that says the treeman gains the +3
The chainsaw player suffers an additional +3 to the armour roll against it because of its own rule
This is nothing to do with the treeman's skills
The treeman has not used the chainsaw rule
Your position needs better justification than this dude
The exact wording from the book is:
"If an opposition player performs a Block action targetting this player and a Player Down! or a POW! result is applied, +3 is added to the armour roll.."
So the treeman got a pow, the chainsaw player then has +3 added to its armour roll
That's all
It doesn't say the treeman is using the chainsaw rule, or anything else
It only says +3 is added to the armour roll
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 14:44:12
My position does not need justification, because the official video game has it ruled like i said, plus in the tabletop events it's rules like this.
i agree with you, but the point it that has been ruled differently, thus we have the problem. When you apply the +3, you are doing it by using the chainsaw rule. They should have added to the rule ""If an opposition player performs a Block action targetting this player and a Player Down! or a POW! result is applied, +3 is added to the armour roll. Any other modifiers apply as in a normal block action"
i agree with you, but the point it that has been ruled differently, thus we have the problem. When you apply the +3, you are doing it by using the chainsaw rule. They should have added to the rule ""If an opposition player performs a Block action targetting this player and a Player Down! or a POW! result is applied, +3 is added to the armour roll. Any other modifiers apply as in a normal block action"
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-24 14:56:52
If you agreed, why didn't you say that 100000 posts ago?? :P
You appeared to disagree and stick to the position
The reason why it's wrong is because, if you knockdown a chainsaw player, +3 is added to the armour roll, yes
BUT you're not gaining a rule that gives you the +3
The +3 is added by the chainsaw player's own rule
Therefore it doesn't transfer onto other players, it doesn't cancel other player's skills
You appeared to disagree and stick to the position
The reason why it's wrong is because, if you knockdown a chainsaw player, +3 is added to the armour roll, yes
BUT you're not gaining a rule that gives you the +3
The +3 is added by the chainsaw player's own rule
Therefore it doesn't transfer onto other players, it doesn't cancel other player's skills
Posted by CrisisChris on 2025-04-24 15:32:28
No matter if it is currently used like this or not... official or not. IMO the difference here is the wording of the Mighty Blow skill:
'This Skill cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw traits.'
It is poorly written, because it does not say if it is your own or your opponents trait. I would follow the logic of Sp00keh 100%, but RAW I think this means you cannot have both.
Maybe you could argue:
1) I do the AV roll, I get the +3 from the trait and I am not allowed to use the MB skill.
2) The Injury roll is a totally different thing that is independent from the AV roll. Here no chainsaw trait rules are involved, thus I can apply the +1 of Mighty Blow.
So to me the +4 on the AV roll is most certainly not allowed, but regarding the 2nd case I am not sure.
Maybe there is an overall rule saying that all rolls made for a specific action (the Block in this case) are dependant from each other an the rules involved are meant to be relevant for all rolls?
'This Skill cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw traits.'
It is poorly written, because it does not say if it is your own or your opponents trait. I would follow the logic of Sp00keh 100%, but RAW I think this means you cannot have both.
Maybe you could argue:
1) I do the AV roll, I get the +3 from the trait and I am not allowed to use the MB skill.
2) The Injury roll is a totally different thing that is independent from the AV roll. Here no chainsaw trait rules are involved, thus I can apply the +1 of Mighty Blow.
So to me the +4 on the AV roll is most certainly not allowed, but regarding the 2nd case I am not sure.
Maybe there is an overall rule saying that all rolls made for a specific action (the Block in this case) are dependant from each other an the rules involved are meant to be relevant for all rolls?
Posted by Kozilek on 2025-04-24 18:27:20
wait, wait. I think we are having a misunderstanding.
I DO AGREE with your position, and i am convinced that as you beat a chainsaw player you could apply mighty blow.
That's clear
BUT
the official interpretation of the rule is different from "the most logical interpretation". I'm saying two different things.
First thng that i'm saying is that i do agree with you, should be applied like that
BUT
second thing i'm saying and since there was poor game design and writing, per RAW (rule as written) it's used like this
I DO AGREE with your position, and i am convinced that as you beat a chainsaw player you could apply mighty blow.
That's clear
BUT
the official interpretation of the rule is different from "the most logical interpretation". I'm saying two different things.
First thng that i'm saying is that i do agree with you, should be applied like that
BUT
second thing i'm saying and since there was poor game design and writing, per RAW (rule as written) it's used like this
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-25 21:57:37
@Kozilek Ok, that's clear - NOW :PP
@CrisisChris "it does not say if it is your own or your opponents trait"
Ok but Grab can't be used with Frenzy
If one player has Grab, does that mean a different player can't Frenzy them? no of course not
@CrisisChris "it does not say if it is your own or your opponents trait"
Ok but Grab can't be used with Frenzy
If one player has Grab, does that mean a different player can't Frenzy them? no of course not
Posted by CrisisChris on 2025-04-26 02:13:39
@Sp00keh:
Grab and Frenzy is written different in the rules. In this case the wording is 'A player with skill A cannot also have skill B.' It does not say the skills cannot be used at the same time.
Grab and Frenzy is written different in the rules. In this case the wording is 'A player with skill A cannot also have skill B.' It does not say the skills cannot be used at the same time.
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-26 09:18:09
Yea it’s not directly comparable, but you see what I was trying to show: that the skills of one player don’t influence or restrict the skills of another player
Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-04-26 09:19:59
…Well, unless it’s specifically saying so. Eg Iron Hard Skin cancels Claw
Posted by PurpleChest on 2025-04-26 10:42:10
this is uber beardy, debating at this length about a clear and obvious rule, amazing.
chainsaw and MB cannot be used together, simple. it doesnt say 'by the same player, but its fine its two different players'. on the result of the tree knocking the chainsaw down, CHAINSAW AND MB CANNOT BE USED TOGETHER to determine the result.
Really, this is not hard.
chainsaw and MB cannot be used together, simple. it doesnt say 'by the same player, but its fine its two different players'. on the result of the tree knocking the chainsaw down, CHAINSAW AND MB CANNOT BE USED TOGETHER to determine the result.
Really, this is not hard.