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2016-09-30 05:01:09
22 votes, rating 3
22 votes, rating 3
Returning to the Box? Nope!
I had a few hours to kill tonight. Living in Seattle the Gamefinder is a ghost town and, I couldn't manage to find a League game. So I decided to try the Box. I'd sworn off the Box since a Min-Max'd Necromantic team diced me to bits back on 6/24. Just over three months Box free.
I activate every team I have, figuring I'll get to play something new, and exciting! 13 teams in all...
What do I draw? Something new? Something exciting? Nope! A 700+ match Min-Max'd Chaos team. Against my 31 match Human team.
In short, I waste the next hour of my life and lose one of the few developed players on the team. Yay. Maybe I'll remember that the next time I have a free hour and instead spend it slamming my hand in a car door.
I activate every team I have, figuring I'll get to play something new, and exciting! 13 teams in all...
What do I draw? Something new? Something exciting? Nope! A 700+ match Min-Max'd Chaos team. Against my 31 match Human team.
In short, I waste the next hour of my life and lose one of the few developed players on the team. Yay. Maybe I'll remember that the next time I have a free hour and instead spend it slamming my hand in a car door.
Comments
Posted by Rbthma on 2016-09-30 05:32:50
Yes, the NA evenings are like that in the box- a few bad apples with the potential to spoil the whole bunch. If you can find the time to play earlier, it's much better when Europe is active.
Posted by JellyBelly on 2016-09-30 05:41:53
Yeah .. welcome to NA evening blackbox. It's a shame but, that's the way it is.
Posted by JellyBelly on 2016-09-30 05:43:58
Your last game before that though is probably a good candidate for most casualties scored in a single game by one team. Wowza! :O
Posted by Antithesisoftime on 2016-09-30 05:50:54
I wouldn't count it, builder game against an all snot roster.
I've managed 18 cas in such a builder. It's nothing special
I've managed 18 cas in such a builder. It's nothing special
Posted by thoralf on 2016-09-30 05:53:07
The min-max of your opponent wasn't quite voluntary:
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3837061
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3837061
Posted by ignatzami on 2016-09-30 06:06:50
Yeah, ignore the builder league game. The site treats zero game teams as special. So, a lot of leagues will have you play a throwaway game.
Maybe we need a NA evening league that's just free play...
Maybe we need a NA evening league that's just free play...
Posted by thoralf on 2016-09-30 06:31:09
Not sure what you have in mind, but if you don't find anyone in R or L, chances are the club is closed.
Do you SL? If not, do.
Don't hesitate to use the Chat box, either in B or with Mibbit.
Do you SL? If not, do.
Don't hesitate to use the Chat box, either in B or with Mibbit.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-09-30 06:33:01
Forgot to say that the cold weather should increase the # of players.
Give it time.
The NCBB may be looking for players too.
Give it time.
The NCBB may be looking for players too.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-09-30 06:44:49
Your issue is not "minmax", your issue is perpetual play inside a progressive division where matches are made (preferably) on TV.
Now, that mouthful might come across as me "just explaining why people minmax"; but it actually isn't.
I'm writing it because literally, you've drawn a team that is positively ancient in terms of games played with your relatively young (by comparison one), and have found that your opponent has frontloaded skills onto specific players, found that the stacks he has are quite difficult for you to do anything about, and immediately declared it a minmax team.
Except it isn't. It's a team that 5 days ago was 1800k TV, and the week before that was 2000k TV. The players aren't being selectively skilled to stay low TV, they are _what is left_ of a higher tv team that has been played continually to its own detriment.
Your issue here is simply that online blood bowl under CRP is an arms race - if someone is there first, and plays a great many games, then unless they are truly terrible, they should always have a player or two who has skills stacked or a few players with skills spammed left over that are hard for a younger team to deal with. This happens in leagues too, but because there's very few (read: no) leagues that are going to match each team by who is closest in TV every week, it's less of an issue.
Incidentally, your complaints about the Necromantic team are pretty much completely wrong, and borderline slander - your opponent played exactly the same volume of games as you, actually had more positionals than you, and the key factor was perhaps that you played up TV to his team - however, that isn't his fault.
I get it, perpetual play isn't for everyone and throws up some real horror shows from time to time - but you're basically castigating the box and other coaches for the use of a mechanic that you hate, but they're not even employing.
Now, that mouthful might come across as me "just explaining why people minmax"; but it actually isn't.
I'm writing it because literally, you've drawn a team that is positively ancient in terms of games played with your relatively young (by comparison one), and have found that your opponent has frontloaded skills onto specific players, found that the stacks he has are quite difficult for you to do anything about, and immediately declared it a minmax team.
Except it isn't. It's a team that 5 days ago was 1800k TV, and the week before that was 2000k TV. The players aren't being selectively skilled to stay low TV, they are _what is left_ of a higher tv team that has been played continually to its own detriment.
Your issue here is simply that online blood bowl under CRP is an arms race - if someone is there first, and plays a great many games, then unless they are truly terrible, they should always have a player or two who has skills stacked or a few players with skills spammed left over that are hard for a younger team to deal with. This happens in leagues too, but because there's very few (read: no) leagues that are going to match each team by who is closest in TV every week, it's less of an issue.
Incidentally, your complaints about the Necromantic team are pretty much completely wrong, and borderline slander - your opponent played exactly the same volume of games as you, actually had more positionals than you, and the key factor was perhaps that you played up TV to his team - however, that isn't his fault.
I get it, perpetual play isn't for everyone and throws up some real horror shows from time to time - but you're basically castigating the box and other coaches for the use of a mechanic that you hate, but they're not even employing.
Posted by ignatzami on 2016-09-30 07:40:12
Technically it's libel, not slander, but I digress.
I'll concede your point about the Necromantic team. I loathe how easy it is to turn a wolf into a clawbomb at very low TV.
As for the game tonight, and the Box in general it ruins the game, and the site for a lot of coaches. I'll just stick with league games. You're welcome to all the 500+ game clawbomb matches you can stomach.
I'll concede your point about the Necromantic team. I loathe how easy it is to turn a wolf into a clawbomb at very low TV.
As for the game tonight, and the Box in general it ruins the game, and the site for a lot of coaches. I'll just stick with league games. You're welcome to all the 500+ game clawbomb matches you can stomach.
Posted by Kondor on 2016-09-30 08:38:31
Unfortunately, I don't see much of an answer. I have been playing ranked to try to fill the grid. However, if that were not the case I would play box exclusively because I really hate waiting around for someone to find the stones to accept a match.
The only way I have found my grid matches are by proactively seeing who has a team on game finder and the sending them a PM begging to play a match that gets me closer to the goal.
I would love to play in a league, but I cannot commit to playing a game within a certain time period in a certain time zone. I get on and play when I have a chance.
So, what am I to do? I will be going back to the box fairly soon. Most of my games will be Amazons. I don't think people will find that much better than chaos.
The only way I have found my grid matches are by proactively seeing who has a team on game finder and the sending them a PM begging to play a match that gets me closer to the goal.
I would love to play in a league, but I cannot commit to playing a game within a certain time period in a certain time zone. I get on and play when I have a chance.
So, what am I to do? I will be going back to the box fairly soon. Most of my games will be Amazons. I don't think people will find that much better than chaos.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-09-30 08:39:42
I don't care for the semantics when I'm waking up really.
Either way, YOU were the one running a claw/mb wolf (not your opponent), a block wolf, 2 wights, and 7 zombies (11 men total), and also had fired a healthy zombie.
See where this is going?
I've played very, very few matches against 500+ old teams in the box. There's really not that many of them, and some of the oldest teams I've played have been 100+ game humans (shout out to the Redwood Sons of Anarchy, Sons of Brutus and Cathay Cobras!), on my sub-30 game teams.
What's the difference between us? I don't play during a timezone where there's usually only 4-5 possible matchups. The NA timezone perpetuates its own reality because it diminishes its own numbers, leading the scheduler to create worse and worse matchups in a dwindling population where a number of the already few participants are only activating one team.
I wish you luck in your leagues, but reading between the lines you are simply going to encounter what you hate in them too given some time.
Either way, YOU were the one running a claw/mb wolf (not your opponent), a block wolf, 2 wights, and 7 zombies (11 men total), and also had fired a healthy zombie.
See where this is going?
I've played very, very few matches against 500+ old teams in the box. There's really not that many of them, and some of the oldest teams I've played have been 100+ game humans (shout out to the Redwood Sons of Anarchy, Sons of Brutus and Cathay Cobras!), on my sub-30 game teams.
What's the difference between us? I don't play during a timezone where there's usually only 4-5 possible matchups. The NA timezone perpetuates its own reality because it diminishes its own numbers, leading the scheduler to create worse and worse matchups in a dwindling population where a number of the already few participants are only activating one team.
I wish you luck in your leagues, but reading between the lines you are simply going to encounter what you hate in them too given some time.
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-09-30 09:05:13
Whilst I concede that we Europeans have it easier in the Box, I've been where you are: Playing a very low number of games and mostly League, having a low win %. Then a much better coach with a much better developed (bash) team comes along and runs you over like a freight train, and you happen to lose a player that it took you ages to build, because you play so few matches. And if you're unlucky your opponent is one of those whose chat isn't very entertaining either. That's very frustrating, but it's not your opponent's fault in any way. There are basically two answers:
a) Play more and get better.
b) Stick to League.
I chose a) and never regretted it but of course, I play at Euro evening times.
a) Play more and get better.
b) Stick to League.
I chose a) and never regretted it but of course, I play at Euro evening times.
Posted by Medon on 2016-09-30 10:59:24
[url=https://fumbbl.com/help:SecretLeague]Secret League[/url] is the answer to all these problems! Never the same matchup.
Posted by koadah on 2016-09-30 11:26:20
Secret League!!!
https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=10263&op=view
https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=10263&op=view
Posted by Throweck on 2016-09-30 11:32:51
Vermi - you chose a). I can see you playing more but...
Boom! Yes I went there ;p
Boom! Yes I went there ;p
Posted by Verminardo on 2016-09-30 14:01:17
Is that a challenge? ;-)
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-09-30 14:18:46
That Chaos team was not minmaxed, it lost some players and dropped to low TV.
Posted by jdm on 2016-09-30 15:08:14
This blog post makes a stark contrast to your last one about playing outside your comfort zone. I assume your anger was about the number of games the chaos team had played, because looking at their roster it was really nothing to write home about. And the only PO was on your team. Fairly sure I've faced worse chaos teams when my teams were in the (later stages of) rookie protection.
The replay shows a fairly close game with you being unlucky and failing to score on your drive. You then swamped the chaos well and they had a couple of luck catches on scatted balls.
Leaving aside the issues of activating box in US evening (well documented and locked in various threads), the only way to improve box is to dilute the problem. More people, playing greater variety. Otherwise it's either an a cpomb arms race or a mass migration to ranked/league etc.
As you didn't blog about your other 30 games with this team, I assume it was the disappointment of coming back to box with your newish team and facing a legendary team. You're gonna get that with a random matchmaking algorithm. Chin up chap, at least you'll remember this game and isn't this sport all about making memories for your teams :)
The replay shows a fairly close game with you being unlucky and failing to score on your drive. You then swamped the chaos well and they had a couple of luck catches on scatted balls.
Leaving aside the issues of activating box in US evening (well documented and locked in various threads), the only way to improve box is to dilute the problem. More people, playing greater variety. Otherwise it's either an a cpomb arms race or a mass migration to ranked/league etc.
As you didn't blog about your other 30 games with this team, I assume it was the disappointment of coming back to box with your newish team and facing a legendary team. You're gonna get that with a random matchmaking algorithm. Chin up chap, at least you'll remember this game and isn't this sport all about making memories for your teams :)
Posted by Jedi_Knight_Amoeba on 2016-09-30 15:54:18
You didn't even lose a great player. Just a Meh catcher. Maybe the game sucked. Oh well - some do, some don't.
Posted by Uedder on 2016-09-30 16:49:07
Just pointing out the Chaos team you played isn't willingly min-maxed. It just got killed back to low-mid tv.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-09-30 18:28:59
Note that if you hate CPOMB, you might neither enjoy L or SL. Even playing during EU time (i.e. afternoon) may not solve your problem - from what I saw, mono-activation and shadow dancing is there too.
There are good matchups, there are bad matchups, and griefers gonna grief.
There are good matchups, there are bad matchups, and griefers gonna grief.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2016-09-30 19:46:22
Just making a few observations from the comments I've read here:
1) I don't think it really helps to tell people who are new to the box, or only play a few games per month, to suck it up after a game like this. Your arguments may be sound, or they may not. But it doesn't make the person feel any better and it definitely doesn't make them want to give it another go. I honestly don't know how to improve the box situation in NA time zones, but I do know that this isn't it. I suppose it just makes some people feel better about themselves to know that they can endure what others can't or won't.
2) Whenever I see someone complain about Ranked I always wonder which end of the matchup question they are on. The bulk of teams I see in gamefinder are bash teams, or hybrid teams that lean heavily towards bash. Those are the teams I tend to prefer, too. They have a hard time getting games. I just accept this as part of the environment. Whenever I put elves, humans or skaven in, they get multiple offers. If you really want to play in Ranked, play teams that other people want to play against. If you don't mind waiting, play whatever team you want to play and wait. But playing only bash teams and offering games to only soft/agility/finesse teams, then complaining about not being able to get games is pretty silly and counterproductive. Also, as some have pointed out, you can sometimes get a game by sending a PM. I have done this and coaches have done it to me and it has resulted in a game one of us might not otherwise have accepted.
TL;DR - shaming/attacking someone who had a bad experience doesn't make them want to repeat the experience. try using kindness and put yourself in the other coach's shoes instead. offer games you would be willing to accept. nothing new here.
1) I don't think it really helps to tell people who are new to the box, or only play a few games per month, to suck it up after a game like this. Your arguments may be sound, or they may not. But it doesn't make the person feel any better and it definitely doesn't make them want to give it another go. I honestly don't know how to improve the box situation in NA time zones, but I do know that this isn't it. I suppose it just makes some people feel better about themselves to know that they can endure what others can't or won't.
2) Whenever I see someone complain about Ranked I always wonder which end of the matchup question they are on. The bulk of teams I see in gamefinder are bash teams, or hybrid teams that lean heavily towards bash. Those are the teams I tend to prefer, too. They have a hard time getting games. I just accept this as part of the environment. Whenever I put elves, humans or skaven in, they get multiple offers. If you really want to play in Ranked, play teams that other people want to play against. If you don't mind waiting, play whatever team you want to play and wait. But playing only bash teams and offering games to only soft/agility/finesse teams, then complaining about not being able to get games is pretty silly and counterproductive. Also, as some have pointed out, you can sometimes get a game by sending a PM. I have done this and coaches have done it to me and it has resulted in a game one of us might not otherwise have accepted.
TL;DR - shaming/attacking someone who had a bad experience doesn't make them want to repeat the experience. try using kindness and put yourself in the other coach's shoes instead. offer games you would be willing to accept. nothing new here.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-09-30 20:29:48
"Just making a few observations from the comments I've read here"
That would be a good idea.
That would be a good idea.
Posted by keggiemckill on 2016-10-01 00:11:57
If you aren't going to play Box again, does it matter if you lose a developed player? It's the whole if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound, sort of scenario.
Posted by Rbthma on 2016-10-01 00:12:53
@thoralf: Shadow dancing! sounds cool, but what is it? :D
Posted by thoralf on 2016-10-01 00:40:09
I'm glad you ask, Rbthma:
1. Click on Community/Chat/Mibbit/OK.
2. Go in #FumbblBlackbox
3. See the names with a tick next to them.
4. Go on the B page.
5. See who don't talk and wait.
You're welcome.
1. Click on Community/Chat/Mibbit/OK.
2. Go in #FumbblBlackbox
3. See the names with a tick next to them.
4. Go on the B page.
5. See who don't talk and wait.
You're welcome.
Posted by pythrr on 2016-10-01 01:38:35
ha, poutine strikes again!
Posted by Amon242 on 2016-10-01 05:28:23
lesson learned, hug your pixels tonight for tomorrow they may be gone
Posted by pythrr on 2016-10-01 06:13:17
emo
Posted by keggiemckill on 2016-10-01 19:52:14
Great info Thoraf
Posted by Balle2000 on 2016-10-02 20:46:48
Several good comments above, but this one from jdmick is really all you need to know "the only way to improve box is to dilute the problem. More people, playing greater variety".