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Halfabrain
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halfabrain (28386)
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2024

2024-12-23 18:10:52
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2020

2020-10-05 00:39:12
rating 3.3
2020-09-17 00:39:39
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2020-09-10 23:41:13
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2020-10-05 00:39:12
30 votes, rating 3.3
Etiquette and gritted teeth
Warning: strangely enough the following is my opinion. I haven't thought particularly hard about it. Neither should you. It may not even be entirely true.

Etiquette is a funny thing. It might seem obvious to you but then you meet some uncivilised barbarian who not only doesn't know what the hell you're talking about but wouldn't give a damn even if you explained it to him.

Etiquette is defined thusly: the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group.

This naturally presupposes three things, firstly that your oppo actually cares a damn about politeness, secondly that what he believes to be polite is the same as you and thirdly that he belongs to the same group.

What is polite? To decide on this lets look at what we're doing here. We are playing a game. Lives are not at stake. Not even money. Pride perhaps, though lets face it not a lot of it. It is only a game, my favourite game but still a game and something I play (see that word there, play) for fun.

It follows then that my opponent whomever they may be must also be playing for fun. Yes, yes I know some of them are absolutely avatars of Nuffle sent to test us and see if we can still come back after being skinned and served up for lunch but most are indeed human.

So surely politeness and polite play is were you do your best to ensure that your opponent also has fun? This doesn't mean you have to go easy on them or spare the rod (hurhur) but you should ensure that what you are doing is sporting and not making them more upset than you have to.

I recently played a game with one of my teams that I've been trying to skill up for participation in 1 of the majors. I came up against another pretty bash heavy bunch and, well, things didn't go to plan. Nuffle didn't just desert me he went and played for the other guy.

I swear, its not that I was playing badly but my armour was tissue and his was admantium. Come the 2nd half and players down already, I lost 3 in the 1st turn. Ok then.

I apologised and told him I couldn't continue being competitive and would retreat to lick my wounds leaving the field to him. This however really wasn't enough for him. No he wouldn't be happy until my entire team was smashed and fouled into oblivion. The charming man mentioned something about trying to retire them. What a gent.

Well I guess he's aloud to play the game any way he likes I suppose.

I always do my best to win. That doesn't mean that I always play tier 1 teams or stick to the meta but I'll always try my best whatever I'm coaching.

I don't think its controversial to say that's kind of the whole point.

But I do believe it is the responsibility of a player to insure within reason that he remember it is a human being on the other side of him and his team might mean nothing to you but to him it might be the product of many long hours of effort.

Wrecking it without any real need is not just vandalism but can be a cruelty as well.

I'll hear all this guff about spps for casualties and so on but there are no points for fouling and is the possibility of 2 spps really worth it? You are dicing your opponent. Victory and a big one too is assured. Your opponent has stopped playing and is just trying to save his team. Have some humility. Show some class. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And even if you don't care if your 50 game team you were prepping for a tournament is smashed to pieces, maybe your opponent does.

People will say if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, this is the box only the strong survive blah blah blah

My friend this is a game. A game. You can be highly competitive whilst still being a good sport. You can smash someone's team, I've done it myself, on the way to a win but why would you try and retire someone just for the sake of it?

It's not cricket and it's not polite.

I would argue politeness is different from things like timing people out. I don't do it but some people, with some justification think its part of the game and do it regularly.

This is different from a spiteful t16 foul. Or the sadistic pleasure derived from murdering a helpless opponent. "Well that's just the way I roll mu-ha-ha aren't I a crazy guy" Not really. Just someone with no etiquette.

I said it at the start and I'll say it again, this is my opinion. That's a lie. This is my opinion right at this present moment. Tomorrow maybe it'll be different. I don't condemn anyone for having different ideas on etiquette than I do, but they say every cripple has his own way of walking and this is mine.
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Comments
Posted by Rbthma on 2020-10-05 03:14:44
Well I hope it was either your team "I Know it's Wrong But I Don't Care" or "I Blame the Parents" and that your opponent quoted your team names as they tried to wreck your team :)

But seriously, enter the team anyhow - so what if it's not in ideal condition. BB has room for small miracles to happen and not the first team to wreck themselves prepping for a major
Posted by dustar on 2020-10-05 05:06:49
Some people are just awful but makes it more satisfying when you get them back some time!
Posted by Jogrenaught on 2020-10-05 05:45:30
Well my friend, I usually like your stuff. But I dunno, this is a blackbox game. Im disagreeing with you on this one.

First: Youre a throne of blood player just like me. You know we get points for kills. You know theres a trophy for retiring teams. You know the kill points are EVEN for fouling in the monthly competition. Its possible this is what your opponent was aiming at.

Second: I think you mentioned this was a Box game. If you had some really hardcore looking players and I might have to deal with them again in the box if we got paired up later on (especially if I was trying to climb the trophy ladder) and theyre just lying on the ground then its strategy to remove those eye sores by any means necessary. - I mean cmon - AG 5 legendary wardancer sprawled on the ground and Im up 2-0 and hes stunned - hell yeah Im going to try to break him. We dont cry when we remove a queen in chess. Its the same thing.

Now am I going to be a complete jerk in chat and be like, haha im mr.killpants - cant wait to see you retire this team? Of course not. In that alone (and based solely on what youre typing) I think your opponent had some fault.

But as far as politeness, thats not the issue. Its the strategy in the Box.

Also, the FUMBBL rules kind of go against retreating and letting someone win too:

"Do not discuss or agree on in-game events. This includes agreeing on not fouling or behaviour that implies an agreement such as clicking end turn for a significant part of the game." (just me reading it, its possible I am misinterpreting it) - I got in trouble with them on accident once so ive been reading them.

Look, love you to death and most of your blogs. Just cant side with you on this one. Friends can still disagree. :)
Posted by MenonaLoco on 2020-10-05 07:41:56
tldr
Posted by mekutata on 2020-10-05 09:41:35
There are games where a combination of Nuffle and bad decisions can lead to this dominoes falling and leaving you down and helpless. I wouldn't expect an opponent to forgive my bad luck by not pitch clearing me.. but it can really be painful if your team lacks the manpower and goblins to do anything, while your opponent still plays as slow like Dominik in a major. When you reached the point where you MUST click end turn and then witness 4 long minutes.. But honestly, how often does this happen (to you)?
And remember, fouling not granting SPP is anyway a design flaw! And not fouling on T16 is a sign of disrespect for the opponent coach!
Posted by asteflix on 2020-10-05 11:02:37
I apologized and told him I couldn't continue being competitive and would retreat to lick my wounds leaving the field to him.

Is directly followed by

I always do my best to win. That doesn't mean that I always play tier 1 teams or stick to the meta but I'll always try my best whatever I'm coaching.

rated bait/6 stars
Posted by stej on 2020-10-05 11:31:57
Massive disconnect between in game and post game can ruin the fun I find.

Too many injury roles effectively kill a player and ruin the post game team building experience. In game, a kill is no worse than a BH. It just makes your next in game experience "different".

I'd love to see a revised injury table with less perms and more temporarys (e.g. Miss next 3 games, -1ST for the next 2 games etc).
So you still get the same in game impacts but it softens the team building pain a bit.

As for the main topic, I see no issue going for blocks and blitzes, as they can net you SPP and come with a slight risk.
Fouling, it's part of the game, just feels bad when a player gets retired. Maybe foul injuries should be capped at BH.

Not playing to win, regardless of the odds, makes me sad
Posted by koadah on 2020-10-05 11:59:45
"Etiquette is defined thusly: the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group".

The thing you seem to be missing is that though we play using the same platform, we are not all of the same group.

The bigger the league, the more people from different groups you are likely to encounter.

This is precisely why many people prefer to play in smallish leagues in the League division.

The Box, I assume, is the biggest league on Fumbbl. You cannot choose your opponent, and there is always the chance that you will draw an opponent that doesn't like it the way that you like it.

Not to worry. Soon EVERY ("competitive") team will be "wrecked" when after 15 games. ;)
All's fair in love and blood bowl.
Posted by mekutata on 2020-10-05 12:00:39
@stej, while I am not sure on how useful this will be in the general new bb2020 meta, but there will be an option to keep injured players and potentially heal them after a season (add a questionmark, I browsed through those new rules last time when they were leaked.. i recall coaches analyzing that perma injuries will be less common).
And while those teams might not win the Fumbbl Cup, there are strongish teams that kept all their niggled and otherwise permanently modified players. and some leagues where firing is not allowed. So there is at least that approach regarding team building, it's just not common in random match making environments for obvious reasons.
Posted by stej on 2020-10-05 12:14:22
Oh indeed, bb2020 seasons will do away with a lot of the team building pain. You can't build as high so wont have as far to fall.
I was sad to lose my 56 game +ST chaos blocker the other day. He would never have got to that stage under the new rules
Posted by MrCushtie on 2020-10-05 21:18:24
@stej I'd like to cap foul injuries at badly hurt when it's my players. When I'm stamping on a ST5 witch elf, on the other hand, let's just ban apothecaries and have Dirty Player cound as +3 on the injury roll...
Posted by garyt1 on 2020-10-06 02:26:51
No spite, only pleasure, in a t16 foul.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2020-10-06 11:39:31
In a sense I agree with you. I have my own etiquette and morality in my gaming. I kae choices that are sub optimal because I believe it is right, because it is how i want to game, because it is who i choose to be.

But I am aware everyone else has their own choices to make, and i do not want or expect my 'code' to be enforced upon anyone, even me.

In my 6500 games here i have probably only tried to destroy or retire a team a handful of times, and yet i have done so, and may well do so again.

We cannot change others, only ourselves.
Posted by koadah on 2020-10-06 12:36:19
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?id=55826

Heh, heh. The dude said that he wouldn't consider it a real victory unless he killed three of my players.

He only managed two but did win the game on the last turn.

Ah, those were the days. ;)
Posted by paradocks on 2020-10-12 09:38:21
Completely agree with OP. Along with being a good sport and a gent and all that stuff - it's just pragmatism. Why make an in-game enemy for life by pointlessly destroying their team.

It's like the movie Kickboxer - Tong Po was a sick individual, and in the end he paid for his transgressions.