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2014-03-17 22:49:25
8 votes, rating 5.4
8 votes, rating 5.4
Blackboxing Blues
So, over their 523 games the Sons of Brutus have historically drawn Chaos, Nurgle, Chaos Pact, Chaos Dwarves and Necromantic 45% of the time. This is a little bit more than the pre scheduler average of 38% that these races represent (these races are still running at about 37% post scheduler change).
For the Sons however the last 50 games have seen those 5 races 62% of the time. We've managed a game each against Dark Elves, Vampires, Slann and Wood Elves. The rest of the games have been against other forms of bash or hybrid teams. Now I enjoy the scheduler arranging a match up on my behalf as in ranked I'm sure I'd be guilty of picking (human nature and all), but I'm really not getting the variety of games I desire in the box. These last 50 games have really made me wonder, and if there was such a facility to switch between divisions I'd be doing it.
Each individual shapes the environment by the team builds and races they choose to play. Please make some more interesting choices. Stop being dull.
/whine.
For the Sons however the last 50 games have seen those 5 races 62% of the time. We've managed a game each against Dark Elves, Vampires, Slann and Wood Elves. The rest of the games have been against other forms of bash or hybrid teams. Now I enjoy the scheduler arranging a match up on my behalf as in ranked I'm sure I'd be guilty of picking (human nature and all), but I'm really not getting the variety of games I desire in the box. These last 50 games have really made me wonder, and if there was such a facility to switch between divisions I'd be doing it.
Each individual shapes the environment by the team builds and races they choose to play. Please make some more interesting choices. Stop being dull.
/whine.
Comments
Posted by licker on 2014-03-17 22:55:36
I've provided the solution to this problem :)
No one wants to do it though :(
No one wants to do it though :(
Posted by Calcium on 2014-03-17 22:58:07
Your solution sux balls Licker :)
Posted by Cavetroll on 2014-03-17 22:59:04
Makes you wish for the occasional orc or dwarf team, doesn't it? Heh.
Posted by smallman on 2014-03-17 22:59:48
Claw mb po combo is too strong to pass up. So makes sense that everyone does it. I really hope they reduce how great po is so I can enjoy slann again.
Posted by DukeTyrion on 2014-03-17 23:00:27
I think the scheduler is a bit of a problem these days in general.
There used to be a small min-max issue at low levels, but in fixing it we get some stupid match-ups which has broken the box somewhat, hence your recent matches;
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3546584
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3546955
It's likely that if the scheduler was based on the old way of doing thing you would get more variety, but as it is, if you are the second highest activated TV in the box, you risk drawing a beast.
There used to be a small min-max issue at low levels, but in fixing it we get some stupid match-ups which has broken the box somewhat, hence your recent matches;
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3546584
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?op=view&id=3546955
It's likely that if the scheduler was based on the old way of doing thing you would get more variety, but as it is, if you are the second highest activated TV in the box, you risk drawing a beast.
Posted by licker on 2014-03-17 23:01:02
Slann can't take PO?
Posted by Dunenzed on 2014-03-17 23:07:32
@DukeTyrion - I actually enjoyed those two games, as the million of inducements made them a bit more interesting, a bit better luck to start with and they could have been great games. The equally matched TV games against "optimised" teams from the races I've been inundated with are way duller.
Posted by koadah on 2014-03-17 23:11:27
The scheduler fix was in two parts. But only one part has been implemented.
ARR!
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=8767
ARR!
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=8767
Posted by Dunenzed on 2014-03-17 23:16:35
@smallman - You could choose to enjoy slann now. ARR! even provides a framework to give your matches meaning by aiming for the racial title. I choose to pass on the cpomb combo - and I also run minimal pomb - you could make the same choice.
Posted by Sp00keh on 2014-03-17 23:21:47
i think there should be a cap of how much bigger 1 team can be than the other
maybe 50%
so a team of 1400 can play a team of 2100, but any more extreme matchups would be just impossible
maybe the cap even less, like 30%
maybe 50%
so a team of 1400 can play a team of 2100, but any more extreme matchups would be just impossible
maybe the cap even less, like 30%
Posted by licker on 2014-03-17 23:28:43
Or...
Just make 3 (or more) different teams which each tend towards a different spot on the TV curve and activate all of them every time you activate. That way you will be very unlikely to get an extreme TV match.
Or...
Just suck it up and enjoy playing with 1000k in inducements. :)
Just make 3 (or more) different teams which each tend towards a different spot on the TV curve and activate all of them every time you activate. That way you will be very unlikely to get an extreme TV match.
Or...
Just suck it up and enjoy playing with 1000k in inducements. :)
Posted by koadah on 2014-03-17 23:47:01
Or just bin your team after 15-20 games and start a new one.
Low TV is fine. ;)
Low TV is fine. ;)
Posted by mrt1212 on 2014-03-17 23:52:27
Ask cameronhawkins how he likes being a heavy favorite in box...
Posted by duruk on 2014-03-18 00:28:27
heard about ARR here and joined instantly..
there is also the group "Fill the Box Grid" encouraging coaches to play as many different match-ups as possible in the box.. more members included in such groups would bring more variety into the box
https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=8001&op=view
there is also the group "Fill the Box Grid" encouraging coaches to play as many different match-ups as possible in the box.. more members included in such groups would bring more variety into the box
https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=8001&op=view
Posted by pythrr on 2014-03-18 00:56:27
yes, the new scheduler changes have made things worse, on the whole
Posted by Scaramanga on 2014-03-18 01:14:17
Smallman, the box is dying because of you and some others .
Posted by Dunenzed on 2014-03-18 02:00:34
Those five races I refer to in my original post do make up 50% of all games at 1600+ TV, so my overexposure to them isn't that far above what the stats suggest.
The distribution of races is pretty much unchanged from an overall point of view - about half a percentage point from the each of the top (56.4) and middle eight (30.4) to the eight least popular races(13.2).
I think it's important to acknowledge the scheduler has improved things for new teams. So I wouldn't agree that the new scheduler is making the box worse for everyone.
But I would agree that a 1 in 3 chance of meeting Chaos or Nurgle at 1600+ TV is pretty tedious.
The distribution of races is pretty much unchanged from an overall point of view - about half a percentage point from the each of the top (56.4) and middle eight (30.4) to the eight least popular races(13.2).
I think it's important to acknowledge the scheduler has improved things for new teams. So I wouldn't agree that the new scheduler is making the box worse for everyone.
But I would agree that a 1 in 3 chance of meeting Chaos or Nurgle at 1600+ TV is pretty tedious.
Posted by licker on 2014-03-18 02:57:23
How has the new scheduler made things worse? You can't sit with a cheesey min/maxed garbage team and pick on rookie teams as easily?
Box has issues because there is very little diversity.
Fix that and you have a much better environment.
I've given you all the keys to fixing it yourselves. If you don't want to drive the car then don't whine when you get run over.
Box has issues because there is very little diversity.
Fix that and you have a much better environment.
I've given you all the keys to fixing it yourselves. If you don't want to drive the car then don't whine when you get run over.
Posted by koadah on 2014-03-18 03:03:21
The Box has loads of diversity. There is just no point trying to carry on 'being diverse' to higher TV.
Even if we had to active different types of teams it would still make sense to play your claw bombers to higher TV than most of the others.
Even if we had to active different types of teams it would still make sense to play your claw bombers to higher TV than most of the others.
Posted by xnoelx on 2014-03-18 04:08:56
Well, I'm glad to have done my part for your game 525...
Posted by Dunenzed on 2014-03-18 04:46:44
Yeah, Noel, it was a real treat getting to play pro elves. Only the 5th time the Sons had ever done so - I was a bit nervous that I wouldn't know how to play against them, but I got lucky at just the right times.
Posted by OenarLod on 2014-03-18 09:15:55
I'm getting sick of the Box too.
I would have never thought to say so, but I would move the Vault Tec Squad to Ranked and play there if possible. Until that moment, I'm stuck in the Box if I want to play my favorite team.
I'm a prisoner of my own fluff... :)
I would have never thought to say so, but I would move the Vault Tec Squad to Ranked and play there if possible. Until that moment, I'm stuck in the Box if I want to play my favorite team.
I'm a prisoner of my own fluff... :)
Posted by koadah on 2014-03-18 11:34:51
I would hate to be seen as changing my mind on the internet...
But remind me again. What was the argument against merging R & B?
But remind me again. What was the argument against merging R & B?
Posted by Throweck on 2014-03-18 13:02:20
I have been a little addicted to HLP recently. Loving it in the conference as you seem to hit a few different teams. However at 1600TV plus it's generally chaos, nurgle and CDs. This is getting a little tedious now for me. Not just for me but other HLP coaches I like to spec. I don't know what the answer is but it is beginning to put me off activating the Knights.
ARR! does add the diversity but it seems more at low TV. Perhaps it's because ARR! is fairly new and teams are not that high in TV yet? (asides BattleFrogs and SuckaLot).
I haven't played too much in Ranked recently but I love the Knights currently, hence why I like to activate when I can. Perhaps my Humans in Ranked should get some play time.
ARR! does add the diversity but it seems more at low TV. Perhaps it's because ARR! is fairly new and teams are not that high in TV yet? (asides BattleFrogs and SuckaLot).
I haven't played too much in Ranked recently but I love the Knights currently, hence why I like to activate when I can. Perhaps my Humans in Ranked should get some play time.