Posted by gjopie on 2015-03-26 15:40:04

The most games any individual player can play is 98 games? What a stupid idea.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2015-03-26 15:40:34

Unbelievably stupid.

Posted by Stonetroll on 2015-03-26 15:46:17

ALL HAIL AGEING! Brilliant solution to cpomb Cyanide :D

Posted by WhatBall on 2015-03-26 15:46:55

Unbelievably Cyanide! :D
They are morons. 98 games maximum? Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_players_by_games_played

Posted by happygrue on 2015-03-26 15:52:15

Good news for us, eh? \o/

It is amazing that out of the overflowing barrel of ideas that could nudge things in the right direction they manage to come up with this one.

Posted by mister__joshua on 2015-03-26 16:04:02

While this seems silly on the face of it, this is very much an idea to make their 'player marketplace' work rather than a gameplay related decision I would imagine. It's hard to fathom the reasons for it now, except to stop inflated prices of Legends. I'd still be interested to see how it plays out even though I'll likely never play it.

Posted by SAILA on 2015-03-26 16:06:44

First of all, the text on their website is barely readable for me, it's zero info and all marketing, every second word has a superlative adjective, it makes my brain bleed after a minute of reading. This company treats its (potential) customers like idiots from A to Z.
Frankly, I don't care that much about aging, as I very rarely (if ever) play that many games with one team. But, more importantly, the Twitter answer is an indirect answer to a question, how much freedom and customization will there be for league owners. Despite a) it would mean absolutely no extra work to make all this bullshit features optional. b) every single league owner asked for FULL CONTROL for league owners since the first announcement of BB2.
But then again, for Cyanide everything seems to be a problem. Even timeouts are not optional (means it's impossible to teach somebody the game etc.).

This text made me outright laugh:
"Finally, the multiplayer mode of Blood Bowl 2 allows you to create your own competitions: from qualifications to finale, to the number of participating teams and type of tournament, you customise absolutely every aspect of your championships as you please."

You can customise absolutely every aspect!! Like number of players. or type of tournament. Or number of players. Or how many players will play. Or type of tournament. I could go on and on.
You can't customise aging though...but absolutely every *other* aspect, no problem. Did I mention you can actually decide the number of players?

Posted by happygrue on 2015-03-26 16:16:18

We're having some fun on IRC thinking up hashtags with which to "promote" this new breakthrough BB game.

So far #ThanksCyanideRegardsFUMBBL, and #thankyoucyanide2515

lead the way. Thoughts?

Posted by SAILA on 2015-03-26 16:22:42

#MarketplaceAbsolutelyNoWayToExploitThatStopAsking

Posted by akaRenton on 2015-03-26 16:27:47

Wow, that's spectacularly dumb :D

Posted by Wizfall on 2015-03-26 16:27:49

It makes some some sense considering the new market feature.
However a very risky move, hard to believe Cyanides is willing to enforce it so i guess we will read a PR denial soon.

Posted by Roland on 2015-03-26 16:47:42

Great news for fumbbl! \o/

Posted by Alzhaid on 2015-03-26 17:25:01

Sometimes I fear Cyanide will try to shut down fumbbl considering how some non-profit programmers with PHP and Java skills prove everyday that their official product is a shit.

I bought the Cyanide game some years ago just to feel morally right to play fumbbl or tabletop (which I never bought in the past) and as a way to say "thanks" to Games Workshop for the creation of the game.

I honestly think I played about three or four games until I uninstalled it and came back to fumbbl. I edited a player's bio, looked for a match against a coach of my level, enjoyed a game without the need to zoom out and easily marking which player was the one with Guard, edited the post-match report, read a couple of blogs and posts... oh yeah!!!

Mmmm, I'm feeling ashamed now that I consider I have only made low donations to this wonderful site!

Posted by Calcium on 2015-03-26 17:36:33

So I've logged back into FUMBBL after a months break to join in the ridicule of Cyanide and their pile of crap in the making, BB2!

Posted by mister__joshua on 2015-03-26 17:45:41

How about #FUMBBLersliveforever

Posted by Calcium on 2015-03-26 17:46:32

lol, that's a good one Joshua

Posted by happygrue on 2015-03-26 18:09:03

Nice one. :D

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-03-26 18:12:56

The negativity of the responses is a bit too overwhelming for my taste.
It seems a logical possible addition to a market concept. Outside of it it is somewhat unnecessary in that it fixes something that isn't broken.

I'll wait and see how it turns out.
I'm sure based on the repsonses they will reconsider making it optional.
There is clearly a need for that, clearly a need to play the game by its actual rules tbh.. obviously...

One reason I could imagine why they hesitate is the way Cyanide integrates private leagues into their official tournaments.. Teams in such private leagues would have quite the advantage.
Then again, I wonder if you can't just essentially cheat/design your team on Cyanide alltogether.

As I have no experience with it, somebody from there would need to tell me how could their controls are and if they have any.

Either way I'm really exited to see how it all works out. I was extremly hyped with BB1 prior to its release and am now holding my expectations low hoping they can exceed them.

The market is certainly something to look forward to that is going to make it unique and different from fumbbl. Now it's just a matter of competence...

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-03-26 18:21:56

I'd like to know what the chance is to make it through the respective years... seems like much more interesting to consider than what the chance is to actually make it to the end.

Also perfect environment for fast living CPOMB... Man I wonder.. we'll see..

Posted by dode74 on 2015-03-26 18:24:43

It's not necessary for the marketplace to work; if anything it'll cripple it as it will devalue experienced players. I play a league with a marketplace now and there is no issue.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-03-26 18:41:35

Hmmm well how the games developed in CRP I'd say it's not a dumb idea to add an 'aging' mechanic of some sort, obviously not this one though.....

I have some questions.

1. Does this mean that Cyanide are and feel they can change the rules how they wish for BB2?

2. Will this include in game changes or just out of game changes?

3. If yes to one or both of the above, who is making these changes? Any names of note?

Interesting stuff.

Posted by Cavetroll on 2015-03-26 18:41:51

I have used this as an excuse to renew my gold badge status by making a donation to FUMBBL. Not giving Cyanide another dime.

Posted by Purplegoo on 2015-03-26 18:41:55

It may very much seem like I am reverting to type or supporting the home team, but as a Blood Bowler first and foremost, I cannot see much upside to this plan. A shame. Much as the Cyanide product is not for me, some people seem to like it. Turning people off of Blood Bowl via bad rules changes (perhaps even by _rules changes_, that would put me off) is not good for the game. Weirdly, not everyone likes FUMBBL, and I'd rather they have a viable alternative.

Posted by happygrue on 2015-03-26 18:46:15

I am confused about why this is being implemented. I thought clawpomb wasn't a problem on Cyanide? Is this a response to clawpomb? If so, how is it supposed to actually fix the issue? In such an environment wouldn't it be trivial to get the combo early on a beastman and then have a rotation to make sure you have a few of them in the pipe so you always have it? Compared to the agility teams that skill up key players fast but are going to be dealt major blows somewhat regularly as the positional core could potentially all retire at close to the same time?

And if this change was about something else, what could that possibly be?

Posted by happygrue on 2015-03-26 18:52:12

Maybe I don't understand the issue well enough, but I am just dying to know what the playtesting was like. Did no one play 100 games of a human team in a league and see what it would be like if all of your blitzers quit between games 55-60? Should you be firing/selling them at game 30 and drafting newer players to avoid that? Maybe it's a blast but it is massively different than Blood Bowl!

Posted by sann0638 on 2015-03-26 18:57:50

No playtesting has taken place afaik.

Posted by Purplegoo on 2015-03-26 19:02:44

Stop trying to see the logic, grue. You'll go mad. ;)

Posted by happygrue on 2015-03-26 19:30:43

MAD!? MAD YOU SAY!? POPPYCOCK! I'm busy thinking deep thoughts:

See the lovely row of Beastmen
Laying waste to all the Free Men
One gets the skills
One does the kills
On the narrow path to true Zen

Now quiet all of you, I'm counting my ears but they won't hold still.

Posted by mrt1212 on 2015-03-26 20:11:27

This is kind sad if only because I actually like what they've done visually with the game.

Posted by mrt1212 on 2015-03-26 20:14:50

Also, I'd laugh my ass off if an enterprising Fumbbler developed a way to import Fumbbl replay files into BBII just so they could share a visually interesting rendition of an exciting game.

"Nice BB movie maker you developed there cyanide"

Posted by sann0638 on 2015-03-26 20:17:52

That is an amazing idea. Meanwhile, feel free to sign if you feel strongly: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/make-any-deviation-from-crp-optional-in-bb2

Posted by PainState on 2015-03-26 20:18:46

One way to nerf CPOMB is to force retire players after 98 games. Under normal game situations it takes around 50 matches or so to get fully CPOMB upped.

So a solution for CPOMB is being lambasted and shot down by the masses.

Very interesting. It supports the idea that coaches deep down do like CPOMB and the carnage.

Posted by mrt1212 on 2015-03-26 20:25:28

That's one way to look at it Painstate but I think you're off by a bit.

It's not so much that people like CPOMB and want to protect it, it's that they don't want some arbitrary limit on the life of their players, whether they actually play 100+ games with them or not. The spectre of something arbitrarily forcing your player into retirement is the antithesis of where CRP has led us. We want failed Apos to decide fates ;)

Sure, one side effect might be CPOMB nerf and that might be the impetus for implementing this idea but...people are taking issue with it because of all the effects on non CPOMB teams.

To me, this really feels like it was designed specifically to force churn of rosters and prevent market dilution of players by limiting the supply.

Posted by PainState on 2015-03-26 20:27:07

Or it could be said you are a pixel hugger and cannot stand the idea that one of your precious pixel players will be retired aft 98 games.

So you are either a fan of CPOMB or a fan of Pixel love.

We are starting to "out" the deviants in the FUMBBL community now.

:}

Posted by Zed on 2015-03-26 20:28:17

this is even worst than old lrbb 4 rules of aging, good for fumbbl really ^_^

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-03-26 20:30:18

@Happygrue, in an environment were time is of the essence for skilling players up, the players that skill the fastest, are obviously at an advantage.
I'm not sure if Wardancer type or carnage type players skill faster, but I'm pretty sure getting to legend very quickly is easier with a carnage type...
He'll also be incredibly valueable then.

@dode, making the good players less valueable is sort of the point. You buy a developed player but you may only be able to hold him for a short time. That is the trade off you have to consider.
It's probably not necessary to use this particular mechanic, nevertheless in a large and open environment, trade mechanics can't be utterly unrestrained and still work.. simply because the available good quantifies infinitely and therefore has to produce an inflation that goes towards infiinity.. with a limitation of games per player the values of the players inflate while the values of the currency inflates... the first effect should at least somewhat dampen the second effect.

My concern is mostly that I don't think cyanide even understands how this is impacting different player types differently and that they are accounting for that appropriatly.

Posted by mrt1212 on 2015-03-26 20:36:10

PainState, King of the False Dichotomy :P

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-03-26 20:38:32

"it's that they don't want some arbitrary limit on the life of their players".

Well nobody wants that sort of thing, however it's not necessarily bad for the game. However this form of aging doesn't add anything.

A form of aging would be good to negate some of the iffy team management that happens in CRP. However this doesn't affect that. you're also getting legends after 40 games now, so again this does little to affect that either.

If skills went on forever. I.e. you got another skill at 250 spp, 350 spp etc, then this added rule would do something; however you don't so......

If there was a fluff reason for doing it, that might add something maybe. I.e retired players that reach a certain level at retirement are added to a hall of fame. This I think would worsen the game slightly as players try to make the hall of fame for the sake of team building, but in a way it could be addictive.

Anyway, I'm really interested to know what crew they have behind these rule changes.

Posted by mrt1212 on 2015-03-26 20:42:24

Yeah, I can see for specific types of leagues, having a "no olds" rule could keep it fresh season to season especially if you're introducing new teams fairly often. But this? This is no bueno.

Posted by Wreckage on 2015-03-26 20:47:08

"Anyway, I'm really interested to know what crew they have behind these rule changes. "

That would be great to know, yeah.. then again they did come up with the whole equipment thing which is like.. serious stat ups for money? When I was 14 and had played like 12 games I thought that would be an awesome way to improve BB but.. when you stick with the game for a while you realize that stat ups aren't some marginal improvements you can just hand out like candy and expect it not to break the game.. their blitz mode didn't seem to work either really, their AI was kinda weak.. so... my impression after the first part at least was that they probably don't have a single person on their staff that really understands the game... potentially somebody who is a real fan and a very causal player of the game tho.. or two..

Posted by AegisTheHyena on 2015-03-26 20:55:49

From the looks of things, the game looks shiny and has the potential to be what players want, but Cyanide once again fails the pickup on a Spiked Ball and kills themselves while failing a regeneration roll (don't laugh, it happened to my opponent's werewolf the other day) with this kind of crap.

Cyanide really doesn't know how to defer to the player base. It seems to me that they're just throwing Simiyn poo at the walls and seeing what sticks (and the result is a stinky version of the game)... GG Cyanide.

I wish I had the patience to learn java skills. I have so many ideas for player types (mostly medieval like dragons with breath weapons and the like, being a D&D-er at heart) it's not funny.

Posted by Shinomune on 2015-03-26 21:01:04

It's like "We don't want to put 3 digits in player's games statistics". I don't see any other reason to force retire at max. 98 games lol

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-03-26 21:01:07

Well yes, but they did get a good crew to do the Khorne list. Cyanide originally made a list that would have most likely caused problems and then went out and got experienced people to make it playable.

They must know what the game is about and what a large chunk of their playerbase is/from. I.e. it's not a game that's going to bring in a lot of casual gamers that pick it up play it for a bit, drop it and move on.

So at least 50% of the potential BB2 playerbase will have a good idea how the game works already and wouldn't be happy with rule changes on a whim. It's surely impossible for them not to know that.....well right now I don't know what to think.

Posted by coombz on 2015-03-26 21:02:06

classic

nothing these two awful companies do would surprise me anymore

EXCEPT if they actually released a decent Blood Bowl game...

Posted by Kam on 2015-03-26 21:07:26

Funny how you have to write a blog about Cyanide to be rated 6. :D

Posted by gjopie on 2015-03-26 21:10:28

I guess the trouble is that if you want to keep re-releasing a game that most players are happy to keep playing year after year as it is, you need to come up with stupid rule changes to justify it. As great as FUMBBL is, it doesn't make for a great business plan...

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2015-03-26 21:27:20

Doesn't it? Just make it subscription like wow.

Posted by PainState on 2015-03-26 21:35:45

Well I do have a plan.

Here it is so sit down and get ready.

I become a multi millionaire. I buy FUMBBL and give Christer a nive 7 figure salary to run this.

I then market the crap out of FUMBBL, destroy Cyanide in the process. Then I go to NAF HQ and get them on board to host Blood Bowl, FUMBBL style matches across the world for money, fame and glory. Giving many of you a shot to become a professional Blood Bowl player, touring the world, playing TT tournaments for real money, fame and women.


I have a dream.

Posted by koadah on 2015-03-26 21:36:36

Bwa ha ha ha ha!


http://store.steampowered.com/app/209390

£2.49

Posted by Dalfort on 2015-03-26 22:07:21

Glad you shared that koadah, I had DB bought for me and it disappeared from my Steam account. I will chase them up for it now.

On topic: Is this "aging" rule a way to justify MinMaxing and firing perfectly healthy players to maintain killer teams? Where coaches can keep TV down by training their new killers at intermediate rates to replace when their Star gets retired before he leaves?

Posted by mrt1212 on 2015-03-26 23:02:12

gjopie - I have a few friends in the video game industry in both marketing and programming. The thing that one of them pointed out to me is that the business model that a lot of publishers and developers are set up with precludes them from scaling to market demand size to make a profit on any given project.

FUMBBL wouldn't be viable as a business that aims to satisfy shareholders/partners, and create capital to plow into other potentially profitable projects, but certainly the longevity of FUMBBL is a testament to there being demand for the product and a userbase willing to support it. And a lot of that hinges on the fact that Christer, et al do this as a labor of love and the expectations as a consumer are not the same as if we we're forking over money.

Posted by Tantibus on 2015-03-27 09:45:03

What a load of shit, poor selection of races now this rubbish. Seems to be very favourable to elves who can level quickly.

Posted by Tantibus on 2015-03-27 09:46:16

Also 7 games a year? How lazy are bloodbowl players.

Posted by Rat_Salat on 2015-06-01 01:29:02

Actually it's not a bad way to balance the immortal Orc AV9 teams who are immune to spiraling expenses. Probably not the best way, mind you, but it would put a limit on those high tv bash teams.

I've never had a player live 98 games, so this doesn't affect me in the slightest. Just those pixel-hugging bash coaches.