12 coaches online • Server time: 07:33
* * * Did you know? The best passer is Cherrystone Hotpack with 656 completions.
Recent Forum Topics  WOBBL - season 3 rec... | League | All Star 20 Year Ann... |
2012-06-12 03:08:15
23 votes, rating 4.3
23 votes, rating 4.3
Community
I'm feeling kinda thoughtful on the idea of community and what it means to be part of one.
A couple of things provoked these thoughts, one here and one over on TalkFantasyFootball. Both used the term community in interesting ways or rather the interactions involved were interesting.
On TFF a sculptor posted pics of a sculpt which looked very similar to something from the Cyanide computer game, the sculptor had previously sculpted something that looked very like Thrud by Carl Critchlow. Someone was less than impressed that the sculptor was using other peoples designs and someone else countered by saying that the sculptor was helping the community and was a nice guy. Someone else considered that the cyanide influenced model was fine because GW and Cyanide didn't care about the community whereas Carl Critchlow was a nice guy and helped out the community. Who defines what and who the community is?
Now, I like models as much as the next BB player but a new product for sale is just that, something for sale. It's nice, it's shiny and if I reckon it's worth it then I'll buy it, if the manufacturer thinks it's worth it he'll sell it. Is the BB community Blood Bowl players or Blood Bowl consumers?
Carl Critchlow wrote a funny comic and Thrud is a cool looking character. He sells his comics and he makes (some) money doing it, he licenses Thruds likeness for models and again makes (some) money doing it. He allows the use of Thruds name and likeness for a charity BB tournament free of charge, rock on that man you are a gentleman. I selflessness needed to be part of a community or does it simply make you a nice bloke?
GW produced Blood Bowl - they sold it and made (some) money out of it over the years, they gave the players a lot of creative access and input over the years and then pulled the plug on that and got very controlling and litigious. They still give the rules away free of charge and still stock the full range of Blood Bowl models as well as the boxed game. Does being a dick mean you are no longer part of the community?
Cyanide made a game called Chaos League that was pretty damn similar to Blood Bowl at it's core, it was very different mechanically and even visually but they got sued and made to make a BB computer game. They didn't do a great job of making the game complete. Are they not part of the community because they screwed up or does their earlier provision of a cool BB substitute make up for it a bit?
Which kinda brings me to the comment in the forums here the other day. Someone was told they weren't part of the community because they hadn't/didn't play here and no-one was interested. They were on the site discussing the game, discussing mechanics and statistics etc but discussing the game nonetheless. They play/have played BB in the past but they haven't/don't play here so weren't considered part of the community.
I found it kinda odd, I play here, I occasionally post a random blog :), I read the forums but rarely post, I spec games. Now bearing in mind that I do all those things I still probably only interact with a tiny percentage of the coaches here, am I a greater or lesser part of the community than someone who just specs and discusses the game?
I learned Games like blood bowl and Warhammer from watching and paying attention, i enjoyed spectating long before I enjoyed playing but from the moment I understood what was happening or even what a terminator or a blitzer was I felt part of the community. Sure I wasn't a coach yet, I am now and enjoy the game but I'm still not a great coach, sure I can have my good days but I'm average and happy with that, does my averageness make me more or less part of the community?
A spectator in Fumbbl is like a football fan, he might play football for fun and not to the level of seriousness of a premier league player, he might watch an amateur league and play in a different league. A fans still part of the community right? A French player watching a game in England is still part of the community when he discusses the game in the pub later right?
I think I'm probably just a pretty inclusive guy, I might not agree with you or find you damn annoying but I think we're all equal parts of the community from the moment we start interacting on common ground. I'm also all for forum management in keeping threads on-topic but I find the "you're not from around here, are ya boy?" attitude to be less than welcoming.
We're all part of the community I guess is what I'm trying to say.
*long damn rambling thoughts for this time in the morning.*
A couple of things provoked these thoughts, one here and one over on TalkFantasyFootball. Both used the term community in interesting ways or rather the interactions involved were interesting.
On TFF a sculptor posted pics of a sculpt which looked very similar to something from the Cyanide computer game, the sculptor had previously sculpted something that looked very like Thrud by Carl Critchlow. Someone was less than impressed that the sculptor was using other peoples designs and someone else countered by saying that the sculptor was helping the community and was a nice guy. Someone else considered that the cyanide influenced model was fine because GW and Cyanide didn't care about the community whereas Carl Critchlow was a nice guy and helped out the community. Who defines what and who the community is?
Now, I like models as much as the next BB player but a new product for sale is just that, something for sale. It's nice, it's shiny and if I reckon it's worth it then I'll buy it, if the manufacturer thinks it's worth it he'll sell it. Is the BB community Blood Bowl players or Blood Bowl consumers?
Carl Critchlow wrote a funny comic and Thrud is a cool looking character. He sells his comics and he makes (some) money doing it, he licenses Thruds likeness for models and again makes (some) money doing it. He allows the use of Thruds name and likeness for a charity BB tournament free of charge, rock on that man you are a gentleman. I selflessness needed to be part of a community or does it simply make you a nice bloke?
GW produced Blood Bowl - they sold it and made (some) money out of it over the years, they gave the players a lot of creative access and input over the years and then pulled the plug on that and got very controlling and litigious. They still give the rules away free of charge and still stock the full range of Blood Bowl models as well as the boxed game. Does being a dick mean you are no longer part of the community?
Cyanide made a game called Chaos League that was pretty damn similar to Blood Bowl at it's core, it was very different mechanically and even visually but they got sued and made to make a BB computer game. They didn't do a great job of making the game complete. Are they not part of the community because they screwed up or does their earlier provision of a cool BB substitute make up for it a bit?
Which kinda brings me to the comment in the forums here the other day. Someone was told they weren't part of the community because they hadn't/didn't play here and no-one was interested. They were on the site discussing the game, discussing mechanics and statistics etc but discussing the game nonetheless. They play/have played BB in the past but they haven't/don't play here so weren't considered part of the community.
I found it kinda odd, I play here, I occasionally post a random blog :), I read the forums but rarely post, I spec games. Now bearing in mind that I do all those things I still probably only interact with a tiny percentage of the coaches here, am I a greater or lesser part of the community than someone who just specs and discusses the game?
I learned Games like blood bowl and Warhammer from watching and paying attention, i enjoyed spectating long before I enjoyed playing but from the moment I understood what was happening or even what a terminator or a blitzer was I felt part of the community. Sure I wasn't a coach yet, I am now and enjoy the game but I'm still not a great coach, sure I can have my good days but I'm average and happy with that, does my averageness make me more or less part of the community?
A spectator in Fumbbl is like a football fan, he might play football for fun and not to the level of seriousness of a premier league player, he might watch an amateur league and play in a different league. A fans still part of the community right? A French player watching a game in England is still part of the community when he discusses the game in the pub later right?
I think I'm probably just a pretty inclusive guy, I might not agree with you or find you damn annoying but I think we're all equal parts of the community from the moment we start interacting on common ground. I'm also all for forum management in keeping threads on-topic but I find the "you're not from around here, are ya boy?" attitude to be less than welcoming.
We're all part of the community I guess is what I'm trying to say.
*long damn rambling thoughts for this time in the morning.*
Comments
Posted by Nelphine on 2012-06-12 03:47:09
<3 for long walls of text
<3 for trying to be more inclusive with the community
<3 because I haven't given enough <3 recently
<3 for trying to be more inclusive with the community
<3 because I haven't given enough <3 recently
Posted by Jeffro on 2012-06-12 04:19:03
As the term "community" evolves in this ever-complicated technological age, it is becoming less about proximity and more about similarities in personality. It's actually coming more and more to the roots of the latin 'communitas' meaning "the gift of being together"... but alas, we humans get it all backwards and use it as an exclusionary tact.
Reminds me a little of some brilliant lyrics written by the lead singer of King Missile, John S. Hall, from his song "Saturday":
I want to be different, like everybody else I want to be like
I want to be just like all the different people
I have no further interest in being the same,
because I have seen difference all around,
and now I know that that's what I want
I don't want to blend in and be indistinguishable,
I want to be a part of the different crowd,
and assert my individuality along with the others
who are different like me
... Welcome to the community of differentials :D
Reminds me a little of some brilliant lyrics written by the lead singer of King Missile, John S. Hall, from his song "Saturday":
I want to be different, like everybody else I want to be like
I want to be just like all the different people
I have no further interest in being the same,
because I have seen difference all around,
and now I know that that's what I want
I don't want to blend in and be indistinguishable,
I want to be a part of the different crowd,
and assert my individuality along with the others
who are different like me
... Welcome to the community of differentials :D
Posted by shadow46x2 on 2012-06-12 04:20:56
your point would have more weight if you weren't mixing "blood bowl community" with "fumbbl community"....
just saying...
just saying...
Posted by pubstar on 2012-06-12 05:33:43
I agree with the final point.
Maybe you think Blood Bowl is really popular. Here's the news: it's not. There just aren't very many people who play Blood Bowl, when compared to other things you can do on the internet, like watch cat videos or play Flash Mini Golf.
Given the relative paucity of people who share this hobby, it's only reasonable to take steps to be more inclusive in the social aspects of the game.
Maybe you think Blood Bowl is really popular. Here's the news: it's not. There just aren't very many people who play Blood Bowl, when compared to other things you can do on the internet, like watch cat videos or play Flash Mini Golf.
Given the relative paucity of people who share this hobby, it's only reasonable to take steps to be more inclusive in the social aspects of the game.
Posted by pythrr on 2012-06-12 08:40:19
sorry, i only read multi-page reports when I am getting paid to do so.
Posted by koadah on 2012-06-12 10:15:31
I suppose Shadow46x2 sums it up.
I really don't know why you guys like to keep so separate. I'd rather be part of the Blood Bowl community than just a Fummbl one.
Props to Panstate for manfully trying to keep the forums alive. Without him there would be nothing but posts for leagues I don't belong to and "what skill should I give my... ".
When someone finally posts a thread that might get people going it gets locked for being interesting enough to attract the 'wrong sort'.
I've never really got on too well with #fumbbl so I find the forum useful. Though IRC will probably also need PainState's efforts when the [R]anked enhancements go live.
Personally I actually prefer the Cyanide boards even though I haven't played there in two years and have less than 50 games total.
Maybe I just get on better with dudes who are completely nuts. ;)
But at least I can discuss my favourite division with coaches who have actually analysed the Fumbbl match data and without the constant threat of being locked.
At least we still have our [L]eague communities.
I really don't know why you guys like to keep so separate. I'd rather be part of the Blood Bowl community than just a Fummbl one.
Props to Panstate for manfully trying to keep the forums alive. Without him there would be nothing but posts for leagues I don't belong to and "what skill should I give my... ".
When someone finally posts a thread that might get people going it gets locked for being interesting enough to attract the 'wrong sort'.
I've never really got on too well with #fumbbl so I find the forum useful. Though IRC will probably also need PainState's efforts when the [R]anked enhancements go live.
Personally I actually prefer the Cyanide boards even though I haven't played there in two years and have less than 50 games total.
Maybe I just get on better with dudes who are completely nuts. ;)
But at least I can discuss my favourite division with coaches who have actually analysed the Fumbbl match data and without the constant threat of being locked.
At least we still have our [L]eague communities.
Posted by Corvidius on 2012-06-12 11:31:30
Yeah, long ranbling wall of text Pythrr, no woories on skipping it. :)
I acknowledge the differences between Cyanides game (not used their forum), Fumbbl, TFF and general tabletop but I don't see them as being wholly separate. It's all about the enjoyment of the game for me (be that playing, speccing or stat analysis) so while there is undoubtedly groups within it (TeamScotland/WIL/moderators/Christer) with their own issues they are all part of the same community. I'm about enjoying the common ground rather fighting about what makes us different. Sounding kinda like a hippy now but still. :)
I acknowledge the differences between Cyanides game (not used their forum), Fumbbl, TFF and general tabletop but I don't see them as being wholly separate. It's all about the enjoyment of the game for me (be that playing, speccing or stat analysis) so while there is undoubtedly groups within it (TeamScotland/WIL/moderators/Christer) with their own issues they are all part of the same community. I'm about enjoying the common ground rather fighting about what makes us different. Sounding kinda like a hippy now but still. :)
Posted by Corvidius on 2012-06-12 11:32:40
Jeffro, i like those lyrics. :)
Posted by BlizzBirne on 2012-06-12 12:53:42
the term community strongly depends on the context, and shadow already pointed differences out. you could say that there is a fumbbl-community and a cyanide-community and a classic-tt-community (or others even) and all together form the bloodbowl-community. and people might belong to (feel part of) some or all of them.
does that matter?
i think a well made point is: if you're not an accepted part of a community, your opinion will count very little in that context.
and if we are discussing non-fumbbl-specifics, but rather general bloodbowl matters here, it should not matter whether or not and to what extend someone is part of the fumbbl-community.
bah. unimportant blabla. now i dont like it anymore and have to rate only 3: for good intention but bad focus. ;-P
does that matter?
i think a well made point is: if you're not an accepted part of a community, your opinion will count very little in that context.
and if we are discussing non-fumbbl-specifics, but rather general bloodbowl matters here, it should not matter whether or not and to what extend someone is part of the fumbbl-community.
bah. unimportant blabla. now i dont like it anymore and have to rate only 3: for good intention but bad focus. ;-P
Posted by Cavetroll on 2012-06-12 22:20:35
Good effort, man. It's pretty clear it was late when you wrote it, but I think I got the point. I'm all for more blending between the FUMBBL and the general Blood Bowl communities. Surely it should be easier than achieving, say, world peace? Or a stable European economy even?
Posted by Corvidius on 2012-06-12 22:58:54
I think a lot of the tabletop players play here as well as elsewhere, I know a lot of the team England and team Scotland guys do anyway so to an extent it is becoming more integrated but I think part of my rambling was trying to point to different aspects of Fumbbl that people could be interested in other than just playing games that still meant they were part of the group just not necessarily a well accepted part.
Things like programming, player models, Fumbbl statistics, Rankings, etc are all potentially site specific and so could be considered uniquely Fumbbl community issues. Sure, they're not going to be widely publicised or have input from everyone but they are still about Fumbbl.
I'm rambling again. Anyhoo, thanks for reading the wall of rambling text and whether you contributed or just read it, it was cool to get it out. Now to find a Stunty game. :D
Things like programming, player models, Fumbbl statistics, Rankings, etc are all potentially site specific and so could be considered uniquely Fumbbl community issues. Sure, they're not going to be widely publicised or have input from everyone but they are still about Fumbbl.
I'm rambling again. Anyhoo, thanks for reading the wall of rambling text and whether you contributed or just read it, it was cool to get it out. Now to find a Stunty game. :D