Posted by Uedder on 2015-10-29 20:23:38

And you accepted it? o_O For a dice block?

Congrats to you Dominik. YOU are the true hero!

Dominik for sportsmanship of the year! What I say? The millenium!

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 20:32:50

The game was 11 seconds old but the reroll was critical and it was be very likely that this bug decides the winner. Just take a look at the replay.

Posted by Uedder on 2015-10-29 20:38:11

I would feel terrible asking someone to give up a blitz! for a reroll. Even if it was a bug... The two things don't balance out.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 20:54:10

FUMBBL Ranked and Blackbox try to resemble the tabletop version as accurate as possible. A bug rerolling the dice block for me is absolutely insane in my opinion.

Posted by Uedder on 2015-10-29 21:26:25

Yeah, so due to a bug you would've lost a RR. Instead your opponent lost a blitz!

Best sportsmanship on both sides might have been restarting the game, but you not using a RR maybe?

Anyway grats on the win!

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 21:36:53

I asked if we shall try to replay the game as accurate as possible but the admin said it is a new game with new dices.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-29 21:39:03

You actually agreed to restart? It wasn't his fault.

He gets the Good sportsmanship award, while you get the Bad Sportsmanship award. Enjoy.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 21:48:56

If it was my fault I wouldn't ask to restart the game. If there is a game changing bug, would you accept without hesitation your fate if it happened at the very beginning of the game?

Posted by Gitzbang on 2015-10-29 21:52:20

Horrible ... how could you not be a good sportsman, accept the "bug" and thus - maybe - the defeat! Well, you have a big headstart as "Worst Sportsman 2015" and prolly in the history of FUMBBL here

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 21:58:16

Well, that is how things go obviously, one gets the honor and one the dishonor.

Posted by mister__joshua on 2015-10-29 22:05:15

I think the point is that by restarting you didn't lose anything but your opponent lost a Blitz, which is arguably a bigger loss. You didn't suffer from the bug, but your opponent did.

Did you ask to restart or did he offer?

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-29 22:10:38

Can't be said any better than how mister__joshua put it.

If I was offered the restart I would have said thanks but no thanks. The thought of restarting a game has not crossed my mind since the old Skiijunkie client where sometimes it was unavoidable because of bugs.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 22:16:00

Thanks for the tribunal.
Anyhow, its pointless to add a bug report since the client isnt developed anymore.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-29 22:21:17

Well you did ask for it. So you're welcome.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 22:35:12

Can't disagree more with you. It's a competition and no things out of the hands by the coaches should influence the game.

Posted by Timetis on 2015-10-29 22:49:43

Can't we just see this in the way it was meant? As a thank-you to a very sporting-coach.

No matter the case, they agreed upon the matter, that should be enough for us.

I find the blog a nice gesture.

Posted by licker on 2015-10-29 23:17:20

Sporting would have been to restart until he got a blitz result.

But this is a nice nod to mrt1212 who is an excellent person.

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-29 23:39:48

^^ what licker said, or just end turn on yr turn 1 to replicate a blitz.

Posted by PurpleChest on 2015-10-29 23:42:40

I can onkly agree that the only good thing about Dominiks actions here is him self shaming in this blog and praising mrt1212.

This 'bug' that no one else has ever reported. You are 100% sure it wast a missclick? 'cos a missclick isnt a bug.

the replay shows only the nes game, so we, and mrt1212 only have your word for it. And with the utter lack of respect you show every coach on fumbbl, I am not sure in his place I would have been as trusting.

kudos to mrt1212, i suppose. But really shame on you for asking.

Posted by licker on 2015-10-29 23:49:50

I should note that restarting the game that many times would probably not be practical since you'd need an admin willing to work with you. But also giving him a free turn would have done about the same, just pretend it was a riot/blitz :)

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 00:16:36

"Can't disagree more with you. It's a competition and no things out of the hands by the coaches should influence the game."

Oh, you mean how mrt1212 lost his blitz from something that was out of his hands? And this didn't influence the game?

You're so full of shit.

Posted by Albemouff on 2015-10-30 00:36:47

A "bug" that nobody ever heard of just after an elf blitz, which is the worst event that can happen on 1st turn ?

Sorry if that seems rude, but i'm skeptical, and this blog entry looks like a pretext to cover your conscience more than an hommage.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-10-30 00:43:22

"Posted by licker on 2015-10-29 23:17:20
Sporting would have been to restart until he got a blitz result.

But this is a nice nod to mrt1212 who is an excellent person.
Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-29 23:39:48
^^ what licker said, or just end turn on yr turn 1 to replicate a blitz."

Unfortunately this wouldn't be allowed, and would be classed as 'arranged gaming'. Under the old client with mini saves it would have been the thing to do. However with the new client, reloads are new game and new dice, as Dominik reported.

I'm not really understanding the bug though. He rerolled dice he didn't want to? I get this all the time, and put it down to the size and position of the box, rather than a bug.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 00:56:30

I probably clicked the right mouse button on one of the dices (the popup in the middle of the window), then or simulatenously the dices were rerolled.
Is it even possible to reroll dices without pressing the reroll button?

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-10-30 01:21:19

Well this is regularly occurs for me. I reroll when I don't want to. I see it as the client design rather than a bug. If it wasn't in the centre and the 2 boxes were separated I feel this wouldn't happen.

In this case I don't think you are in the right to ask for a restart. It's not clearly a bug in my opinion.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 01:37:16

If it's true that it is a feature that you can reroll dices by clicking the right mouse button on the block result screen in the center of the window, I feel very ashamed that I asked for a restart. Since I never experienced it and it went so fast, faster than one can reroll manually and mrt1212 was surprised too, I was sure that it had to be a bug.

Some of you should get a life, adults in their 30s and 40s mobbing and strengthening group cohesion by this is so low.
This blog was dedicated to a coach who FREELY gave up an excellent position to let a bug not influence the game and you are misusing it to bash on a coach who failed to become a member of the "inner circle" despite being highly active.

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-30 01:57:41

we're not chosing to bash on you because you are not a member of some "inner circle" ---- we are bashing on you cos this seems like a dick move.

you are confusing actions vs states.

Posted by fidius on 2015-10-30 02:14:41

I agree that mrt1212 is a nice guy and a good sportsman. His politics however leave something to be desired. :P

Fortunately the one has absolutely no bearing on the other!

Posted by Naru1981 on 2015-10-30 02:16:32

So the game was 11 seconds old?
and that block was critical on who wins the game??????


erm what???

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 02:20:10

Its easy to judge if you have never experienced the same since nobody including me has had this before.
Tournament, turn 1, 1st block, reroll wasted plus a worse dice result in return which increases the chance to 33 percent instead of 11 percent to not pick up the ball and get the 0:1 while youre on offense. "Just suck it up"?

And its mobbing since its always the same few coaches. If i quit FUMBBL they wouldnt stop being hostile, they simply searched for new targets. Its human nature.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 02:23:24

Because it was 11 seconds old, because there was no explanation why the dices were rerolled and because the bug made it absolutely possible to give the Wood Elves a defensive touch down,I asked for a cancellation. Check what might have happened if I failed the pick up...

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-30 02:31:18

dom, it's not you

it's what you do

it's that simple

Posted by Naru1981 on 2015-10-30 02:41:23

so after 11 seconds the game could have been over???????

Posted by Uedder on 2015-10-30 03:08:45

I would've said "dammit misclick" and kept the game going.

It's a brawl! A weekly tournament!

Plus it's Blood Bowl, anything can happen. And you're a good coach, you could've turned that around, I think.

Anyway clearly mrt is a great guy, it's a shame in my opinion that you abused his kindness to grab the win. That's what this appears to be and that's why you're getting this kind of response.

Posted by latulike on 2015-10-30 03:20:59

Is it me or Dominik just wrote he probably misclicked?? Damn is it a bug or not, at all.

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-30 03:49:22

misclick all bugs

Posted by RC on 2015-10-30 07:17:12

Very nice of him! :)

Posted by vaclav on 2015-10-30 08:00:09

I will kill you, and than make a monument about you.

Posted by ElanTheBard on 2015-10-30 09:53:00

The only thing I can say is that some people should really stop being so over-competitive... and for a weekly tournament!
Try t start get some more pleasure from your real-life, and stop seeking it in a game!

That said, congrats to mrt1212 who sacrificed 1 hour of his time to make a whiny child happy.

Posted by PurpleChest on 2015-10-30 10:20:46

dom, it's not you

it's what you do

it's that simple
(qft)
I've known you a long time Dom, and empathy is not your strong suit. Reverse this situation. Would you sacrifice your Wood Elf blitz for someone claiming a 'bug' that seems awfully likely to have been a miss click?

Posted by coombz on 2015-10-30 10:50:55

"I've known you a long time Dom, and empathy is not your strong suit. Reverse this situation. Would you sacrifice your Wood Elf blitz for someone claiming a 'bug' that seems awfully likely to have been a miss click?"

if someone even suggested that, he'd write a blog about what an outrageous and unfair request that is to make of someone in a Tournament

;]

Posted by cdassak on 2015-10-30 11:00:19

Sorry Dom but you should have just accepted the "bug" (or misclick) and go on with the game. Asking the Elves to lose their Blitz and restart the game was wrong.

Posted by Dunenzed on 2015-10-30 11:30:56

mrt1212: his sportmanhip's don't lie!

Posted by Throweck on 2015-10-30 11:32:14

Well, what can I add to what has already been said?

Er...nothing.

I wonder what would have happened if mrt wasn't so kind. Or if it was a coach that refused to restart due to a seemingly dubious 'bug'. I wonder how the admins would have viewed it? Hmmmm. Well done mrt, you have come out the victor. So you didn't get the points to rise you up the tournament ladder but you can bathe in the shower of kudos from other coaches.

Dom, I think it was civil to lift mrt up. I commend you for that, unfortunately, it did not have the desired effect perhaps? Oh well, the written word can be an unusual beast.

Posted by Calcium on 2015-10-30 11:34:28

I love the fact you continually try to justify your actions, but they just make you appear like the toolbag you really are.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 12:26:23

I didnt misclick, the mouse pointee was centered in the window all the time and it could be that I clicked right mouse button THERE. So nobody could confirm yet that clicking the right mouse button triggers a reroll.

I once destroyed my game when my bombardier made a suicide attempt after I pressed the right mouse button ON him. It was annoying and I wondered why such a feature exists but I went on with the game. There was no reason to betray my opppnent of a potential win since it was all my fault. This time it wasn't and this bug stole mrt1212 a very good start in the game. Even wihh a kick off roll "Nice weather" but this bug occuring I had asked for a restart but when it does come worse I "better" live with it?
You know the bug where your dice block becomes automatically rerolled when the turn time end buttpn was pressed? I had it often and it weakened my position but I never asked for a restart since it was a avoidable if I had played faster.

Posted by Badoek on 2015-10-30 12:42:46

Lol, amazing backfire here! I have no idea what to think :D
I will ponder a bit before rating this.

Posted by latulike on 2015-10-30 12:48:21

Just keep backfiring so we see Dominik continuing his arguments :p

Posted by Gitzbang on 2015-10-30 13:01:15

It's just a thought, but when one person claims something and everybody else disagrees - then maybe the one person is wrong?

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 13:22:36

Yes, it was always this way. If everyone else has opinion A but one person has opinion B, everyone else has to be right. It's a law of nature. Especially if "everyone else" was not present where the incident happened but still knows it better. I won't back down here.

mrt1212 is a great sportsman
I am pedantic

Nobody did anything wrong besides you who are in desperate need of a witch to burn.

Posted by Uedder on 2015-10-30 13:46:27

Isn't this a blog where Dominik names and shames himself?

Seriously, get over yourself. Take this as a chance to question yourself. Maybe realize you take this game and tournaments a little bit too seriously?
Maybe think that you could try a little effort with empathy?

Or just keep on playing the victim as always for all I care.

Grats again on the win. It was deserved.

Posted by the_Sage on 2015-10-30 13:53:47

If you got to redo your block because of the bug, he should get to redo his blitz! too. If not, then not. That simple.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 14:05:49

> I probably clicked the right mouse button on one of the dices [...] it could be that I clicked right mouse button THERE [...]

This would be easy to replicate then.

No replication, no bug.

Whining publicly about bugs without evidence is lame.

***

> Unfortunately this wouldn't be allowed, and would be classed as 'arranged gaming'.

This would be wrong - mrt would gain nothing by doing this.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 14:07:55

"If you got to redo your block because of the bug, he should get to redo his blitz! too. If not, then not. That simple."

Yes!
For all those who did not like to see what they were reading, I asked if we have to replay the game, which means redo the kick off until the Blitz! occurs!
But the admin told me "new game, new dices".


"Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-29 21:36:53
I asked if we shall try to replay the game as accurate as possible but the admin said it is a new game with new dices."


I had absolutely no problem with replaying the game and would have even more liked to replay it, since the game is then free of bugs and the winner a "real" winner.

Posted by cdassak on 2015-10-30 14:09:16

"If you got to redo your block because of the bug, he should get to redo his blitz! too. If not, then not. That simple."

This. Common sense.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 14:18:01

> I asked if we have to replay the game, which means redo the kick off until the Blitz! occurs! But the admin told me "new game, new dices".

Then accepting what happened as Nuffle's wish would have been more expedient.

If you still insist in getting a new game, I can think of at least 4 different ways how to give back the blitz to mrt.

I do hope you'll take more time to playtest and find back your bug than to try to explain how misunderstood you are.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 14:27:06

Just out of curiosity, Dom, are you autistic by any chance?

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 14:49:32

Nuffle's wish is not a bug of the client.
I couldn't give back mrt1212 anything because it was forbidden unfortunately.
Back in the old days of the SkiJunkie client, some coaches hated me because I was absolutely pedantic about a corrupt game that had to be replayed accurately.
Now I get mobbed by not doing so.

My opinion: game deciding bug > prosper game progress for the opponent

Posted by anisdrin on 2015-10-30 15:01:41

Don't you think there had been enough community bashing?
We all make mistakes. Maybe we can move on.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 15:13:38

> Nuffle's wish is not a bug of the client.

Until you replicate the bug, there's no bug, Dominik. In the industry, you could get sued for defamation. Journalists can lose their reputation over such empty accusation.

Without providing any evidence, what you're saying is unethical.

***

> I couldn't give back mrt1212 anything because it was forbidden unfortunately.

Of course you could, Dominik. Go for it and think. Dodge out of your old ways of thinking. Remove your mental 1D blocks. Et cetera.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 15:36:09

Unfortunately the replay of the first attempt of the game where the "strange situation" aka bug happened is not available. It is therefore quite pointless to discuss about it and if it was morally fine to ask for a restart of the game.
You have to experience it to understand it.

thoralf:
How would you recreate a Blitz!?

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 15:39:41

He wouldn't have too, because only truely anal people react by demanding a remake of a game after a misclick.

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 15:40:50

Your mother have misclicked you a few times in your childhood, haven't she?

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 15:42:30

And since you knew you "were not allowed" to try and restart until the blitz happened, you shouldn't have restarted the game. It really is that simple.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 15:44:28

But I guess as long as you're not the one getting screwed over, it's all great isn't it?

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 15:46:13

Ive lost a few good game progressions with the oldskijunkie client. Bugs are bugs.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 15:52:34

> Unfortunately the replay of the first attempt of the game where the "strange situation" aka bug happened is not available.

There's no "aka bug" unless you can reproduce it.

***

> How would you recreate a Blitz!?

End of turn.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 15:53:34

Just out of curiosity, Mr_Foulscumm, do you take pleasure in this trolling, or you're just being a dick out of antisocial anger?

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 16:06:03

Ok guys I started a test match and made some "discoveries".
First of all I don't know why I can't remember where the reroll button was, I thought it was located below my reserves box on the left side of the screen.
Then it is therefore extremely likely that I indeed have misclicked (with the left mouse button). I don't know how I could perceive this incident so blurred. Guess I was shocked about what happened under such a high pressure.

Is it possible to completely eradicate a played game and restart it if both coaches agree?

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 16:07:42

Thank you for inquiring into this, Dominik.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 16:17:55

It's taken him 20 hours to figure out that he fucked up. So sure, trolling. :p

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-30 16:33:27

That ain't funny anymore. mrt1212 was a gentleman and lost the game.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 16:34:15

> It's taken him 20 hours to figure out that he fucked up. So sure, trolling.

What would have been your excuse had Dominik found a genuine bug, Mr_Foulscumm?

Nobody else but you is responsible for your trolling, you know.

At least the lolz hypothesis could in principle exclude dickishness.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 16:49:33

My excuse? I think they made the wrong decision either way. But the leading question was cool and all. No skin off my back. :)

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 16:53:55

> My excuse?

Yes, the one introduced by "It's taken him 20 hours to figure out that he fucked up." As if was relevant or something.

***

> But the leading question was cool and all.

I was inspired by "are you autistic by any chance," in case you're wondering.

***

> No skin off my back.

Your pixel back, you mean.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 16:55:19

The autism question was genuine.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-10-30 17:18:00

> The autism question was genuine.

Sure. Then the question about your dickishness was genuine too. There's no dichotomy between leading questions and genuine questions anyway. The main problem with "leading" is that it redirects a topic.

By asking Dominik if he's autist, you're trying to use personal details against him. Hinting at a part of his anatomic psyche later on only reinforced the ad hominem. Trolling in ad hom mode is not far from dickishness, if you ask me.

If you knew anything about the autistic spectrum, you would not have asked that silly question.

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2015-10-30 17:18:16

Well good thing I didn't ask you then :)

Posted by vaclav on 2015-10-30 18:41:00

Dominik is allllllllllllllll right.

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-30 19:51:25

how is Fouly trolling here?

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-30 19:52:35

@thoralf

-- way to think you can read Fouly's mind, dude. that was not his intentional at all. we've talked about this, and he was genuinely curious and concerned. no one likes kicking a puppy. well, some people do, but not us.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-10-30 20:02:12

*No you cannot take back or replay a game that has already been played. It's logged for eternity.

*Just to re-iterate there is no way that the players would have been allowed to recreate the situation or proxy a blitz. As I said and Dominik said, they were instructed that a new game is a new game.

This is the policy with the new client due to how it works. It's impractical to recreate situations, so recreating would be deemed game fixing.

Meaning if they tried, they would have caused more problems than they solved. Hopefully we can learn from our mistakes. However I'm generally not optimistic about Leopards wearing stripes.

Posted by Naru1981 on 2015-10-31 02:56:36

just wondering how many games have been played on this client.
How many dice rolls been made

and yet not 1 person has found this "bug"

Posted by Dominik on 2015-10-31 03:41:40

1.) 11 seconds can win the game
2.) There was no bug although my perception made me believe there was one

Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2015-10-31 10:14:43

I recently played a game in which I tilted due to a similar mistake - it was late and I was playing a game with a lot of inducements (for me) against a nasty stboub nurgle team...

I managed to misclick during inducements and selected one babe (had at least 350k inducements) and nothing else due to misunderstanding the client.

I tilted and conceded the game before it started and then felt the pain as one of my superstars quit in disgust...

Arguably I could have tried to sort it out via reqesting a reset or something which my opponent may have been up for...

Point being it was a deeply shameful moment where the pain set me on tilt.

Kudos to Dom for blogging about this and for being open and honest about working out it was not a bug.

Posted by DeZigma on 2015-10-31 11:21:54

wow, i guess you should never ask someone agian for help or patients here....

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-31 15:43:21

what does "tilted" me? can i "tilt" too?

Posted by mister__joshua on 2015-10-31 17:57:11

Tilt is a poker term. When you let your emotions overcome your reasoning.

@IA: In that situation you should have requested the game be reset if it was one you cared about. I've done it before. If it's not an important game though I just carry on. That's just me though :-)

Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2015-10-31 19:26:59

Thanks mister_joshua: I scraped an earning as a poker player for a few years hence the terminology.

In response to your question:

"you should have requested the game be reset" - yes 100% this is what i wish i had done, it causes me some distress that i didnt but at the time i wasnt thinking rationally - I was feeling down and a little tired and shouldnt have readied up in the first place and then having so few out of my inducments just sent me under and i tilted hard.

" If it's not an important game though I just carry on" completely with you on that - i have messed up inducments before and carried on all the same with no reset request and have also had a 10 man bug where i didnt get enough loners for a 10 man underworld team match... but played on regardless (and took a whooping) - this match wasnt that important but stboub sometimes takes quite a while to play his turns and is very skillful compared to me (and has a nasty team to boot) which combined with the fact I was so tired that evening (and down from work) combined with the fact I had 1/7 of the inducements i could have turned up with just sent me into a bad way....

Basically - I completely agree with your points and shouldnt have readied up for that game in the first place...

I havent played a game with that team since due to the pain it brings back thinking of the shame and the lost player but havennt had the heart to retire them... If I could somehow regain my player, erase that game and do it over i would in a flash...

Not proud of that evening as i dont think it is an accurate reflection of my character though perhaps I should think of an old roman quote:

"Adversity reveals the genius of a general; good fortune conceals it"

So a genius i am not it would appear - but i will work on the failing and redeem myself

Posted by pythrr on 2015-10-31 21:37:07

cool, josh, thanks. not a poker plaer :)

Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2015-10-31 22:44:43

yes sorry bout that one heh i forget it is english is not first language for many here and also that even for those that english is the first language, tilt is not necessarily a word they understand as having that meaning to it

Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2015-10-31 22:45:25

i think i managed to communicate that in the least fluent way possible

Posted by Badoek on 2015-11-02 13:51:14

Yep, you even killed the conversation with it. ;)

OT: glad to see things have been worked out a bit. Let go of the anger and annoyance and you can all be friends again. ;)

Posted by thoralf on 2015-11-03 16:53:56

> way to think you can read Fouly's mind, dude.

Trolling does not require any psychological construct, pity boy. Good luck with doing the same with autism.

Let Mr. Scumm enjoy how lulzful it can be when it becomes personal.

Posted by thoralf on 2015-11-03 17:57:26

> Well good thing I didn't ask you then :)

Dominik did not ask you anything, and yet you offered.

If you disagree about the way he and mrt handled this, stay away from psycho-pop and stick to that point.