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2011-08-03 23:02:06
48 votes, rating 4.7
48 votes, rating 4.7
CLAWPOMB requires little if no skill?
Provoked by the title of my blog?
If yes then you have something in common with a coach I played the other day. So provoked in fact that I had to suffer a virtual storm of offensive and abusive language. But let me start from the beginning as to what provoked me into blogging about this incident.
It all started when my Amazone team yet again vs paired up vs a CLAWPOMB team, this was of cause no surprise since when your playing at 200tv+ that's whats available. Of the 14 games my team has played around 200tv+ 11 of them was vs CLAWPOMB. I say this because I want to make it clear for the story that I know that when I activate my Amzone team ill meet the CLAWPOMB This is good because its what I want, I have build my Amzone team as an anti CLAWPOMB team. The plan is not going as well as I had hoped, a few design flaws in my team is part of the reason, but also its because the CLAWPOMB is just really strong, as you can read about in countless other blogs and forum posts. Anyways I get a game vs some CLAWPOMB I have never played before and we get on our marry way.
I always check out my opponents profile page before I start a game, since I am a chatty fellow and I like to get a sense of whom I am talking to, in this case I was playing a family man with kids, so I though to myself, good someone I can relate to, someone my own age.
Doing the first half we are chatting away, and I make the mistake of making an remark about how a CLAWPOMB team takes less skill to handle. This remark was purely meant as an observation since in my mind team management and game plan of a CLAWPOMB team and its execution is a very simple matter. And that the popularity of the CLAWPOMB was pushing BB even more into being more about dices and less about skill.
I no way did I mean to imply that my opponent was a bad player nor that he was in anyway doing something wrong in playing a CLAWPOMB team. So despite him calling me one of those CLAWPOMB haters (that was one of the nicer things he called me) I don't hate it, I try to exploit it, when you know what you will face you can try and build your team around it, and this works... for a while, until your team gets that one very bad game and is destroyed and you can start all over. I have even myself mate two attempts to skill up a CLAWPOMB team but both where broken up by other CLAWPOMB teams :) so I decided to only try and see how best to make teams that counter the CLAWPOMB just because its less boring to me.
OKAY! I did have a point to make with this blog, and if your still reading this for some strange reason ill try and make it.
If two coaches both played a CLAWPOMB team, one of them is a veteran coach the other a rookie.
The veteran coach will win more matches with his CLAWPOMB BUT the difference will be less than if those two same coaches had played some other team. The reason for this is that the game plan of a CLAWPOMB team is easier for a rookie coach to handle. its more forgiven and the veteran has less options to use his experience to out play and out maneuver the other player.
So for the life of me I don't understand why I had to suffer a verbal abuse because I have this opinion. I don't in any way think that anyone playing a CLAWPOMB team is doing something wrong, everyone is free to play what they find amusement in.
This was something I had to get off my chest, I am the kind of person where words keeps going around in my head until I put them down somewhere, so now I have, and now I have also learned how to use the black and white list :)
Thx to everyone who toke the time to read all this
Cheers Niebling
If yes then you have something in common with a coach I played the other day. So provoked in fact that I had to suffer a virtual storm of offensive and abusive language. But let me start from the beginning as to what provoked me into blogging about this incident.
It all started when my Amazone team yet again vs paired up vs a CLAWPOMB team, this was of cause no surprise since when your playing at 200tv+ that's whats available. Of the 14 games my team has played around 200tv+ 11 of them was vs CLAWPOMB. I say this because I want to make it clear for the story that I know that when I activate my Amzone team ill meet the CLAWPOMB This is good because its what I want, I have build my Amzone team as an anti CLAWPOMB team. The plan is not going as well as I had hoped, a few design flaws in my team is part of the reason, but also its because the CLAWPOMB is just really strong, as you can read about in countless other blogs and forum posts. Anyways I get a game vs some CLAWPOMB I have never played before and we get on our marry way.
I always check out my opponents profile page before I start a game, since I am a chatty fellow and I like to get a sense of whom I am talking to, in this case I was playing a family man with kids, so I though to myself, good someone I can relate to, someone my own age.
Doing the first half we are chatting away, and I make the mistake of making an remark about how a CLAWPOMB team takes less skill to handle. This remark was purely meant as an observation since in my mind team management and game plan of a CLAWPOMB team and its execution is a very simple matter. And that the popularity of the CLAWPOMB was pushing BB even more into being more about dices and less about skill.
I no way did I mean to imply that my opponent was a bad player nor that he was in anyway doing something wrong in playing a CLAWPOMB team. So despite him calling me one of those CLAWPOMB haters (that was one of the nicer things he called me) I don't hate it, I try to exploit it, when you know what you will face you can try and build your team around it, and this works... for a while, until your team gets that one very bad game and is destroyed and you can start all over. I have even myself mate two attempts to skill up a CLAWPOMB team but both where broken up by other CLAWPOMB teams :) so I decided to only try and see how best to make teams that counter the CLAWPOMB just because its less boring to me.
OKAY! I did have a point to make with this blog, and if your still reading this for some strange reason ill try and make it.
If two coaches both played a CLAWPOMB team, one of them is a veteran coach the other a rookie.
The veteran coach will win more matches with his CLAWPOMB BUT the difference will be less than if those two same coaches had played some other team. The reason for this is that the game plan of a CLAWPOMB team is easier for a rookie coach to handle. its more forgiven and the veteran has less options to use his experience to out play and out maneuver the other player.
So for the life of me I don't understand why I had to suffer a verbal abuse because I have this opinion. I don't in any way think that anyone playing a CLAWPOMB team is doing something wrong, everyone is free to play what they find amusement in.
This was something I had to get off my chest, I am the kind of person where words keeps going around in my head until I put them down somewhere, so now I have, and now I have also learned how to use the black and white list :)
Thx to everyone who toke the time to read all this
Cheers Niebling
Comments
Posted by Malmir on 2011-08-03 23:10:02
I agree with the points you make - I imagine the abuse came as he thought you were having a go at him personally and perhaps you didn't express yourself very well.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-08-03 23:33:22
if you suffered verbal abuse, submit a ticket and let the admins deal.
Posted by Corvidius on 2011-08-03 23:35:24
I don't dispute any of your points. I think it's possibly a result of the perceived attitudes more than your personal opinion that influenced the coach. I think the repeated and almost uninterrupted voices of some vocal coaches means that those of us with even a smattering of Claw, Piling On or Mighty Blow or 1 player with all three feel, if not victimized, then at least a little defensive.
I think that the combination is a good combo and I love the way your Amazons are designed to mess with it. Block, Dodge, Fend, Guard is probably the exact skills I'd have chosen as a counter to it with Sidestep as an additional option. Obviously your team is designed to face this combo but Blodge and Guard are awesome against pretty much anyone. :)
I think that the combination is a good combo and I love the way your Amazons are designed to mess with it. Block, Dodge, Fend, Guard is probably the exact skills I'd have chosen as a counter to it with Sidestep as an additional option. Obviously your team is designed to face this combo but Blodge and Guard are awesome against pretty much anyone. :)
Posted by Gromrilram on 2011-08-03 23:40:34
CLAWPOMB
this blog severly lacked that word.
this blog severly lacked that word.
Posted by Meltyman on 2011-08-03 23:40:39
hear hear.. i watched this particular game that you refer to.. good that you put this blog up so i dont feel so alone with this opinion hehe...
Posted by RC on 2011-08-03 23:48:49
I hate mb po dorfs way more then I hate claw mb po.
Posted by RandomOracle on 2011-08-04 00:08:52
I think I specced this game and feel that you didn't express yourself as clearly in the game as you did here. However, I do agree with what you've said here.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2011-08-04 00:46:50
Keep a piece of paper next to your pc and when you need to put something down somewhere write it on the paper. ;D
Still the proper response to your observation would be something manly and all in caps about how your I WILL NOW KILL ALL YOUR PIXELS MUAHAHAHA
Still the proper response to your observation would be something manly and all in caps about how your I WILL NOW KILL ALL YOUR PIXELS MUAHAHAHA
Posted by JigerJones on 2011-08-04 01:02:50
Shame that some people feel the need to verbally abuse others during games.
Posted by mubo on 2011-08-04 02:00:45
Good post. Out of interest- is chat logged anywhere? Not so you or I could see it, but for admins/staff in cases like this.
Posted by Aries on 2011-08-04 02:50:29
you can screenshot chat if youre being abused. I specced the game, I do recall disagreement in the chat, I do not remember there being any verbal abuse to the point an admin should be involved.
unfortunately, toe-ing that admin involved line is a regular occurance for that coach imo, I spec alot of everyones games, and playing others and games Ive played him, he is less than cordial. Its not the cpomb, its the player.
unfortunately, toe-ing that admin involved line is a regular occurance for that coach imo, I spec alot of everyones games, and playing others and games Ive played him, he is less than cordial. Its not the cpomb, its the player.
Posted by Topper on 2011-08-04 05:05:21
Well well Niebling - You aren´t serious.. That playing CLAWPOMB - aka blitz --> check for cas --> PO --> Check for cas again. Is easier to do than constant positioning and movement? In that case I think you should join this club ;)
http://omnisnomicon.blogspot.com/2006/04/grumpy-old-mens-club.html
Either that or maybe I agree a little too much ;)
Though I hope I can get one myself sometime in the future ;)
http://omnisnomicon.blogspot.com/2006/04/grumpy-old-mens-club.html
Either that or maybe I agree a little too much ;)
Though I hope I can get one myself sometime in the future ;)
Posted by Balle2000 on 2011-08-04 05:53:40
"I am the kind of person where words keeps going around in my head until I put them down somewhere, so now I have"
This is the best part of this blog.
This is the best part of this blog.
Posted by icesmooth on 2011-08-04 07:11:03
Have to say that I don't agree with the notion that C-POMB teams require less skill. In fact I have found that winning with these teams is many times harder. These teams don't always remove players from the pitch and when they don't most of the time they are vastly out positioned. The best C-POMB coaches are those that employ the tactic selectively while developing other players in a support/ positional type roll.
Anyways I find it mildly amusing that someone with mass blodge, fend, guard judges that there is less skill with C-POMB. Most coaches, seasoned or not could take your Zon team and do quite well against the killer teams out there.
Anyways I find it mildly amusing that someone with mass blodge, fend, guard judges that there is less skill with C-POMB. Most coaches, seasoned or not could take your Zon team and do quite well against the killer teams out there.
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-04 08:44:35
@ RandomOracle and @Malmir
It is a very real possibility that I did not express myself well enough in game, English is not my 1st language and even in my native tongue my spelling is nothing to write home about.
So yes he properly felt that I was attacking his person, but I did try and explain this to him more than once, and even afterwards on mIRC I told him the same thing and said I was sorry if he misunderstood me.
I hope my blog has cleared up a bit on how I feel about this topic.
@Aries this is true the verbal abuse in the game was nothing I have not seen before, just plain grumpiness, and I can be that myself from time to time. But he wrote me afterwards on mIRC telling me to go read the match report so that I could cry some more. When I tried to tell him my point of view I was told that I should just learn to live with the fact that he outplayed me and that I could stuff that up my … and smoke it.
And other things I would have expected from a 13year old, but not from a gown man with wife and kids.
@Icesmooth
I never claimed that my Amazone team takes skills to play, I have built it to play vs. teams that are very single minded and hence my team is very single minded, although my lack of success lately has made me consider doing things a bit different, so now I have a diryplayer at last, should have had one ages ago.
Also I am considering starting over with my blitzers, I think I would prefer them to have pion, mightyblow fend. You need to remove a few players from the ClawPOMB teams before they really start to struggle.
I am a seasoned coach and I did start my Zone team thinking what you are thinking that just because I have blodge fend ill do well vs. killer teams. And I have in the fact that I still have a team, teams build like mine is less prone to getting destroyed in a single match, but you do win as much as I had hoped, if the killer team drives often as not they get their TD as was the case in this match and then the best you can play for is draw. My record vs. the these teams is:
Chaos 6/2/4 Chaos Pact 2/1/1 Nurgle 7/3/0
So I was doing okayish up until lately when I started to struggle more and more, thinks it’s because Billy added more tackle to his team ;)
And again, it’s possible to play a ClawPOMB well and to have those fluf players on your roster that adds charm, and the people that do that also gets rewarded, but it’s also very possible to play piss poor with a ClawPOMB team and still win like 50% of your matches simple because its less your skill and more the dices that determines who wins.
It is a very real possibility that I did not express myself well enough in game, English is not my 1st language and even in my native tongue my spelling is nothing to write home about.
So yes he properly felt that I was attacking his person, but I did try and explain this to him more than once, and even afterwards on mIRC I told him the same thing and said I was sorry if he misunderstood me.
I hope my blog has cleared up a bit on how I feel about this topic.
@Aries this is true the verbal abuse in the game was nothing I have not seen before, just plain grumpiness, and I can be that myself from time to time. But he wrote me afterwards on mIRC telling me to go read the match report so that I could cry some more. When I tried to tell him my point of view I was told that I should just learn to live with the fact that he outplayed me and that I could stuff that up my … and smoke it.
And other things I would have expected from a 13year old, but not from a gown man with wife and kids.
@Icesmooth
I never claimed that my Amazone team takes skills to play, I have built it to play vs. teams that are very single minded and hence my team is very single minded, although my lack of success lately has made me consider doing things a bit different, so now I have a diryplayer at last, should have had one ages ago.
Also I am considering starting over with my blitzers, I think I would prefer them to have pion, mightyblow fend. You need to remove a few players from the ClawPOMB teams before they really start to struggle.
I am a seasoned coach and I did start my Zone team thinking what you are thinking that just because I have blodge fend ill do well vs. killer teams. And I have in the fact that I still have a team, teams build like mine is less prone to getting destroyed in a single match, but you do win as much as I had hoped, if the killer team drives often as not they get their TD as was the case in this match and then the best you can play for is draw. My record vs. the these teams is:
Chaos 6/2/4 Chaos Pact 2/1/1 Nurgle 7/3/0
So I was doing okayish up until lately when I started to struggle more and more, thinks it’s because Billy added more tackle to his team ;)
And again, it’s possible to play a ClawPOMB well and to have those fluf players on your roster that adds charm, and the people that do that also gets rewarded, but it’s also very possible to play piss poor with a ClawPOMB team and still win like 50% of your matches simple because its less your skill and more the dices that determines who wins.
Posted by anisdrin on 2011-08-04 09:43:49
Same thing happened to me Niebling.
I also think that Clawpombs relies in the random aspect of the game so equalizes the coach skill.
I'm also very chatty and like to comment thing (good luck, bad luck and all..) And some coaches tend to take things personal and start to be very rude in chat.
Also english is not my native language so my options to explain things are limited.
I think it's important to leave things said in game inside the game unless extreme abuse.
I also think that Clawpombs relies in the random aspect of the game so equalizes the coach skill.
I'm also very chatty and like to comment thing (good luck, bad luck and all..) And some coaches tend to take things personal and start to be very rude in chat.
Also english is not my native language so my options to explain things are limited.
I think it's important to leave things said in game inside the game unless extreme abuse.
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-04 11:31:35
@Calcium your statement makes no sense to me, why would I be hostile because your playing a ClawPOMB team? the hole idea behind my Amazone team is to play ClawPOMB. So that I can test if I can counter it.
If I came of as hostile then I am sorry, I am not. I only get hostile towards nuffel.
The wife and kid remark was only to point out that I did not expect such behavior from you at all and that it toke me by surprise to get such a hostile attitude from you.
One of the many things I love about BB is that a large part of the community are older people, and there for you often avoid the flamewars you see from other games, like WoW.
Anyways I have moved on, but this is my blog and I needed to express myself because I must admit I felt very wronged by you. I did not intent any insult to your person or your team choice, I was just trying to make small talk.
If I came of as hostile then I am sorry, I am not. I only get hostile towards nuffel.
The wife and kid remark was only to point out that I did not expect such behavior from you at all and that it toke me by surprise to get such a hostile attitude from you.
One of the many things I love about BB is that a large part of the community are older people, and there for you often avoid the flamewars you see from other games, like WoW.
Anyways I have moved on, but this is my blog and I needed to express myself because I must admit I felt very wronged by you. I did not intent any insult to your person or your team choice, I was just trying to make small talk.
Posted by Meltyman on 2011-08-04 11:35:53
im guessing you take every word that is written to you as a personal attack and you seemed to act that way in this game also... just saying 'you need to shut up' etc when niebling was just saying his opinion with non-whinyattitude(atleast i felt it that way).
Posted by Meltyman on 2011-08-04 11:47:48
yup its easy to say stuff and leave with the last word :)
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-04 11:49:18
@Calcium you think I got mad at you 3 turns into the first half because I had lost?... the game was still very much alive at that point.
Do you think it is at all possibly that you misunderstood my remark and jumped to a conclusion?
Do you think it is at all possibly that you misunderstood my remark and jumped to a conclusion?
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-04 13:08:12
Just tell me honestly Calcium, is at all possibly that you misunderstood my remark and jumped to a conclusion?
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-04 13:53:02
You could have fooled me with all your responses :) if you really did not care you would just have ignored my blog.
I am not without fault, I have stated many times that my poor English skill may have led you to misunderstand me. And if you recall I have many times tried to apologies to you if this was the case.
But every time I do this you throw some profanity in my face.
Maybe you should just accept the fact that we misunderstood each other, I have played plenty of other coaches with teams similar to yours without there being a mile long blog post about it.
Go ask BillBrasky or Tarabaralla how I handle it when their ClawPOMB teams walk all over me.
I whine ofc but I never insult them nor their teams.
I am not without fault, I have stated many times that my poor English skill may have led you to misunderstand me. And if you recall I have many times tried to apologies to you if this was the case.
But every time I do this you throw some profanity in my face.
Maybe you should just accept the fact that we misunderstood each other, I have played plenty of other coaches with teams similar to yours without there being a mile long blog post about it.
Go ask BillBrasky or Tarabaralla how I handle it when their ClawPOMB teams walk all over me.
I whine ofc but I never insult them nor their teams.
Posted by icesmooth on 2011-08-04 14:28:05
@Niebling @Calcium
I was hoping this would be somehwat constructive but obviously that chance has disappeared
I was hoping this would be somehwat constructive but obviously that chance has disappeared
Posted by Calcium on 2011-08-04 14:30:43
A coach reminded me that arguing online is worse than repeatedly headbutting a brick wall.
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-04 14:31:11
constructive... internet... me no understand
Posted by KenThis on 2011-08-04 21:38:52
in the blog you say coaching clawpomb is easy.
yet you also say you struggled to coach your own clawpomb team.
that seems to me to be a contradiction right there.
saying that however the only times we ever played you schooled me pretty good and i have no idea which game or coach your blog refers to.
i agree that the general clapomb tactic is easy to use but i also think being really good at it does take skill.
yet often when clawpomb teams play eachother it can come down to winning the toss..
yet you also say you struggled to coach your own clawpomb team.
that seems to me to be a contradiction right there.
saying that however the only times we ever played you schooled me pretty good and i have no idea which game or coach your blog refers to.
i agree that the general clapomb tactic is easy to use but i also think being really good at it does take skill.
yet often when clawpomb teams play eachother it can come down to winning the toss..
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-05 07:52:31
KenThis I struggled not with playing chaos, my two teams before I had to retire them had a decent record:
11/5/3
9/2/3
Decent I think since a chaos team is one of the hardest teams to skill up. But both times the teams came to a very bloody end, when faced up with a ClawPOMB team. So the reason I struggled was that there is already a lot of bigger fish out there ;) and after getting knockdown two times I decided to try and play something no one else was, so I played Elf for a while until they where destroyed :) The only reason my Amazone are still around is that they have not had that one REALLY bad game yet, and that impresses me so I keep the girls around for now.
But as you yourself said, you can play ClawPOMB well. A good coach will win with a ClawPOMB team more often than a bad coach. But a bad coach will still win a lot more games than he "normally" would if he was playing some other team.
Speaking of ClawPOMB playing each other, does it not get REALLY boring? I can imaged that like what 4 out of 5 games are vs other ClawPOMB? if not more? does it not get boring?
Maybe that's another blog :)
11/5/3
9/2/3
Decent I think since a chaos team is one of the hardest teams to skill up. But both times the teams came to a very bloody end, when faced up with a ClawPOMB team. So the reason I struggled was that there is already a lot of bigger fish out there ;) and after getting knockdown two times I decided to try and play something no one else was, so I played Elf for a while until they where destroyed :) The only reason my Amazone are still around is that they have not had that one REALLY bad game yet, and that impresses me so I keep the girls around for now.
But as you yourself said, you can play ClawPOMB well. A good coach will win with a ClawPOMB team more often than a bad coach. But a bad coach will still win a lot more games than he "normally" would if he was playing some other team.
Speaking of ClawPOMB playing each other, does it not get REALLY boring? I can imaged that like what 4 out of 5 games are vs other ClawPOMB? if not more? does it not get boring?
Maybe that's another blog :)