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2011-08-13 20:44:25
31 votes, rating 4.6
31 votes, rating 4.6
ClawPOMB is overpowered? I say who cares just fight back!
ClawPOMB is atm 98% of every forum post and blog entry or so it feels ! so you might think this is yet another ClawPOMB post... and maybe it is at that, but I hope not all you can do is read on and find out what this rant is about.
Since my return to fumbbl I have been experimenting with team construction to get a perfect anti ClawPOMB team, this blog will contain my ideas and experiences of how best to combat the might of the ClawPOMB. Any input on how to improve my theory's are more than welcome.
What weapons do you have at your disposal when you make a team with the sole purpose of playing against ClawPOMB.
First of play AV7, this will negate the claw skill.
2nd use Fend and lots of it, this skill will negate both piling on and frenzy, so a player with block, av7 and fend will only ever get hit by the mightyblow and that most teams should be able to handle, just dont give to many free blocks.
Also ClawPOMB are them self very vulnerable to bash, since they often play with as tight a roster as possibly.
So get some bash of your own, dirtyplayers and other stuff
But this we all know, but want I really want to talk about are the teams that can pull of an anti ClawPOMB team build
Amazone
This was the first team that I decided to try and make as an anti team,
I massed Block and fend on my linoes and this worked very well for a while. I did how ever make the mistake of not getting (any) enough dirtyplayer and I picked standfirm on my blitzers, this worked well until I got into the 200tv where you almost only face the ClawPOMB, I have come to the conclusion that the blitzers needs to look more like this,
MB PION Fend, and guard at some point.
When my blitzer had standfirm I would just lose them over the linemen.
I also played wihtout throwers and catcher as I am rebuilding the team I am going to try and skill up a thrower allowing me to hang back and spreed out the game even more and get some catcher with block fend side to be even more of a pest.
I am going to blog about how this reconstruction of my Amazone team worked out.
Norse
The Norse team is also very well suited for being an anti team. Just one skill on a lineman (Fend) and you have a perfect anti player.
Also you can deal out a lot of bash yourself! the bersekers should get MB PION and then... well maybe Fend tbh.. I have not decided yet.
The Ulfvernes I decided to give Block Guard and then Fend
The catcher should get dodge sidestep fend
I will post more blogs if this turns out to work for me
Dwarfs
This will be my newest attempt of an anti team, clearly they do not follow the av7 concept but what I want to try out is the effect of thickskull on a hole team.
Linemen get Guard Fend, same for blitzers and the slayers get MB PO Fend. Runners get block and Fend
My problem with this team is where to place the dirty player... maybe just one dwarf with it as the first skill.
I have no idea if this will work at all.
So this is what I am trying out atm, anyone with a good idea for how to construct an anti team is welcome to post here with the idea. If I like it I promise ill try it out :)
Since my return to fumbbl I have been experimenting with team construction to get a perfect anti ClawPOMB team, this blog will contain my ideas and experiences of how best to combat the might of the ClawPOMB. Any input on how to improve my theory's are more than welcome.
What weapons do you have at your disposal when you make a team with the sole purpose of playing against ClawPOMB.
First of play AV7, this will negate the claw skill.
2nd use Fend and lots of it, this skill will negate both piling on and frenzy, so a player with block, av7 and fend will only ever get hit by the mightyblow and that most teams should be able to handle, just dont give to many free blocks.
Also ClawPOMB are them self very vulnerable to bash, since they often play with as tight a roster as possibly.
So get some bash of your own, dirtyplayers and other stuff
But this we all know, but want I really want to talk about are the teams that can pull of an anti ClawPOMB team build
Amazone
This was the first team that I decided to try and make as an anti team,
I massed Block and fend on my linoes and this worked very well for a while. I did how ever make the mistake of not getting (any) enough dirtyplayer and I picked standfirm on my blitzers, this worked well until I got into the 200tv where you almost only face the ClawPOMB, I have come to the conclusion that the blitzers needs to look more like this,
MB PION Fend, and guard at some point.
When my blitzer had standfirm I would just lose them over the linemen.
I also played wihtout throwers and catcher as I am rebuilding the team I am going to try and skill up a thrower allowing me to hang back and spreed out the game even more and get some catcher with block fend side to be even more of a pest.
I am going to blog about how this reconstruction of my Amazone team worked out.
Norse
The Norse team is also very well suited for being an anti team. Just one skill on a lineman (Fend) and you have a perfect anti player.
Also you can deal out a lot of bash yourself! the bersekers should get MB PION and then... well maybe Fend tbh.. I have not decided yet.
The Ulfvernes I decided to give Block Guard and then Fend
The catcher should get dodge sidestep fend
I will post more blogs if this turns out to work for me
Dwarfs
This will be my newest attempt of an anti team, clearly they do not follow the av7 concept but what I want to try out is the effect of thickskull on a hole team.
Linemen get Guard Fend, same for blitzers and the slayers get MB PO Fend. Runners get block and Fend
My problem with this team is where to place the dirty player... maybe just one dwarf with it as the first skill.
I have no idea if this will work at all.
So this is what I am trying out atm, anyone with a good idea for how to construct an anti team is welcome to post here with the idea. If I like it I promise ill try it out :)
Comments
Posted by black_devil_laughing on 2011-08-13 21:00:51
great idea! If we can actually flood the teams with anti ClawBombs, then it stops to be a viable option for winning, and hopefully the sheer number of clawbombs goes down siginifantly.
Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2011-08-13 21:08:34
Who cares? Fight back?
Having to build a team to counter one specific way to play is boring. So I guess I care.
Having to build a team to counter one specific way to play is boring. So I guess I care.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-08-13 21:14:02
foul em, punch em, have a good laff. sometimes it works.
Posted by Bardazur on 2011-08-13 21:14:46
Good idea !
And you are welcome to the club that hunts clawPOMB players in the box: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=7417
Season II starts in two days.
And you are welcome to the club that hunts clawPOMB players in the box: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=7417
Season II starts in two days.
Posted by JigerJones on 2011-08-13 21:26:53
This is so much more constructive than the usual "CPOMB overpowered nerf it" blog. Rated 6.
Posted by Azure on 2011-08-13 22:48:28
Problem with Amazon and Norse is the AG 3. They have difficulty disengaging if that is what is called for. However - both can work.
Dwarf - you can use the second runner as a DP.
Khemri - the "best" counter is possibly Khemri. They have skeletons which are (a) cheap, (b) have thick skull, (c) have regeneration. They are harder to skill up due to ag 2...but block/fend or wrestle/fend gives you a good player to screen the opponent hitters with. Your two blitz-ra can go MB-PO right off the bat to give you hitting power...and the Tomb Guardians can go Guard first...most ClawPomb teams do not have much guard...so if the Tomb Guardians are not exposed - should be able to limit the 2d blocks you give up.
Good luck.
Dwarf - you can use the second runner as a DP.
Khemri - the "best" counter is possibly Khemri. They have skeletons which are (a) cheap, (b) have thick skull, (c) have regeneration. They are harder to skill up due to ag 2...but block/fend or wrestle/fend gives you a good player to screen the opponent hitters with. Your two blitz-ra can go MB-PO right off the bat to give you hitting power...and the Tomb Guardians can go Guard first...most ClawPomb teams do not have much guard...so if the Tomb Guardians are not exposed - should be able to limit the 2d blocks you give up.
Good luck.
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-13 23:37:36
@Azure thats a good idea, I have been looking for a reason to make a Khemri team after reading plasmoid playbook :) so ill make a Khemri team soon I think :)
Posted by Rabe on 2011-08-14 00:22:02
I once created an undead team only consisting of skellies and ghouls. Ghouls for the blodge, skellies for the same reasons Azure gave. I planned on spamming wrestle and fend on the skellies and create a few dirty players (and maybe one sneaky git dirty player ghoul) to foul everything that has been laid down. Using fouling also seemed nice to me because it wasn't fighting fire with fire. You can't choose not to use claw and mighty blow, but you don't have to foul (even though the team gets even less competitive...).
The team was aimed to play at about 1400k TV, where many pact teams would hang out, at least that was what I had read at that time. Obviously it can't be extended to a much higher TV.
Never got the time to really develop that team though (but you can find it on my team list), so it's pretty much something done on paper.
Maybe undead aren't that bad as a counter team if you use skillies almost exclusively. Quite similar to the khemri approach. While you lose two ST 5 players, you get blitzers (= killers) that are better (whights instead of blitz-ras) and you have access to quite a few blodgers, if you feel the need to use them (can be very useful at a TV range where ClawBomb teams don't have much or any tackle).
Good luck with experimenting! I'm looking forward to more results. :)
The team was aimed to play at about 1400k TV, where many pact teams would hang out, at least that was what I had read at that time. Obviously it can't be extended to a much higher TV.
Never got the time to really develop that team though (but you can find it on my team list), so it's pretty much something done on paper.
Maybe undead aren't that bad as a counter team if you use skillies almost exclusively. Quite similar to the khemri approach. While you lose two ST 5 players, you get blitzers (= killers) that are better (whights instead of blitz-ras) and you have access to quite a few blodgers, if you feel the need to use them (can be very useful at a TV range where ClawBomb teams don't have much or any tackle).
Good luck with experimenting! I'm looking forward to more results. :)
Posted by SavageJ on 2011-08-14 00:30:49
I am fully supportive of this exploration! I don't think we should change rules until we've spent much more time doing exactly this sort of work.
@Niebling, have you thought about wrestle/fend on some of your 'Zon linewomen? I think wrestle does a better job of reducing the number of blocks you face than does block.
@Niebling, have you thought about wrestle/fend on some of your 'Zon linewomen? I think wrestle does a better job of reducing the number of blocks you face than does block.
Posted by Rabe on 2011-08-14 01:05:50
Wrestle should work great in my opinion. If used on defense, you always have an (positional) advantage in your next turn. On offense you can use it to open up holes or bring down a clawbomb monster more reliable than with block (although this means your opponent has to leave the player vulnerable to a blitz and a following foul).
Posted by koadah on 2011-08-14 01:25:40
Only two weeks left to top the chart or prepare your team for September!
http://www.cmanu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bb/stats/sprint.html?sprintId=10
http://www.cmanu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bb/stats/sprint.html?sprintId=10
Posted by Carnis on 2011-08-14 10:46:32
Already did the dwarf idea. It works, but sometimes you get shafted with just mb/claw anyways..
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=649245
On the other hand, the norse are a horrible counter to mbpoclaw. The free claw on everybody is too much. A good mb/guard spam will beat you in a pitched battle with or without PO.. And its more like than not that there are some people they can still PO, either people without fend or a blitzer with jugs.
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=649245
On the other hand, the norse are a horrible counter to mbpoclaw. The free claw on everybody is too much. A good mb/guard spam will beat you in a pitched battle with or without PO.. And its more like than not that there are some people they can still PO, either people without fend or a blitzer with jugs.
Posted by Shraaaag on 2011-08-14 11:10:58
I wouldn't mind the overpowered combo if it weren't so easy to get, and so many taking it. Variation good, uniformity boring.
As tackle is often low priority on a clawpomb'er (excet chaos dwarves), I would say a team with blodge/wrodge combined with fend, would have easier time than most teams.
I hope in the future we'll see more competitive teams than clawpomb and anti-clawpomb teams though.
As tackle is often low priority on a clawpomb'er (excet chaos dwarves), I would say a team with blodge/wrodge combined with fend, would have easier time than most teams.
I hope in the future we'll see more competitive teams than clawpomb and anti-clawpomb teams though.
Posted by koadah on 2011-08-14 11:24:49
But how 'overpowered' are they really?
'Overpowered' in the TV matched Box but not anywhere else. Not even FOL.
http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=20550
'Overpowered' in the TV matched Box but not anywhere else. Not even FOL.
http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=20550
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-14 12:12:42
@koadah your right ofc, but my focus is only on the box.
I dont think the clawpomb is overpowered in a leauge thats run short turn for example.
Its the uniqueness of the box setup that makes them OP in that environment buts another topic :) here I want to talk about how to fight em in the box.
I was thinking Skaven might work aswell :)
I dont think the clawpomb is overpowered in a leauge thats run short turn for example.
Its the uniqueness of the box setup that makes them OP in that environment buts another topic :) here I want to talk about how to fight em in the box.
I was thinking Skaven might work aswell :)
Posted by sann0638 on 2011-08-14 15:09:57
Doing the same with Amazons, going well so far (7-2-1), was thinking wrestle instead of block too, then combo with a sneaky git/DP.
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-14 15:43:08
wress might be worth considering, ill think about it, but I would not take git over guard uneles you turn the catchers into dirtyplayers... thats an option ill consider :)
Posted by legowarrior on 2011-08-14 21:16:09
Wrestle and dirty player... would that work?
Posted by Niebling on 2011-08-14 21:31:17
legowarrior as a compination on?
btw think I sloved my dirtyplayer problem on the dwarf team, at some point ill take a dwarf with dirtyplayer and nothing else, then ill hire the deathroller when the TV is around 200 :) that should be two dplr, hopefully thats enough
btw think I sloved my dirtyplayer problem on the dwarf team, at some point ill take a dwarf with dirtyplayer and nothing else, then ill hire the deathroller when the TV is around 200 :) that should be two dplr, hopefully thats enough
Posted by legowarrior on 2011-08-15 00:25:21
Not on the same guy. Take the elves. Put wrestle and Fend on them. Get a separate elf, put sneaky git and Dirty player on him. Then put all CLAWpomber on the ground. Foul ever turn and wish that fouls where better then they are now.
To me, the problem seems to be that the team is down for the count not just this game, but several for several games. A 'solution' for something like Black box might be to allow a greater chance at 'badly hurt' and a reduced chance at series injury. The bash team benefits from fewer players on the field and star player points and the dash team isn't completely killed off forever.
To me, the problem seems to be that the team is down for the count not just this game, but several for several games. A 'solution' for something like Black box might be to allow a greater chance at 'badly hurt' and a reduced chance at series injury. The bash team benefits from fewer players on the field and star player points and the dash team isn't completely killed off forever.