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2015-04-21 16:45:07
7 votes, rating 6
7 votes, rating 6
Sacking Skills (Box)
I have been wondering for some time what's the best Skill choice for sacking. The ideal sacker would have Wrestle, Tackle and Strip Ball of course, but in what order do you take them? Assuming you are building for high TV play?
So today I have a particularly boring and unrewarding task to do at work, which makes it a perfect day for the exercise I had in mind. I just looked at all the teams that made the draw in the Wheel of Chaos. I may have to repeat the exercise for a Ranked Major at some point because I imagine the result will be different.
If I didn't miscount there were 86 teams. Of the 86 teams, 37 had a Sure Hands ball carrier that did not have Dodge. 22 had a Sure Hands ball carrier with Dodge. 27 had no Sure Hands ball carrier at all.
I noticed while doing this that there were quite a few who had Sure Hands and no Block, unfortunately I didn't start out counting them so I can't say exactly, but there's no way I'm looking at all those teams again. As a rough estimate I'd say maybe 7-10 of the Sure Hands guys had no Block.
So what does this suggest? Strip Ball wins over Tackle for Blackbox Majors, at least in this sample. Wrestle wins over Tackle, too. (Strictly for the purpose of knocking the ball lose.) Does Wrestle win over Strip Ball? A lot of considerations may go into that equation. On a player who doesn't come with Block you'll probably take Wrestle first just to reduce turnovers. But even on a Wardancer or Blitzer the above data suggests that Wrestle is a pretty useful sacking skill. Of course, when the Troll intercepts the pass you still want your Stripper around. ;-)
So today I have a particularly boring and unrewarding task to do at work, which makes it a perfect day for the exercise I had in mind. I just looked at all the teams that made the draw in the Wheel of Chaos. I may have to repeat the exercise for a Ranked Major at some point because I imagine the result will be different.
If I didn't miscount there were 86 teams. Of the 86 teams, 37 had a Sure Hands ball carrier that did not have Dodge. 22 had a Sure Hands ball carrier with Dodge. 27 had no Sure Hands ball carrier at all.
I noticed while doing this that there were quite a few who had Sure Hands and no Block, unfortunately I didn't start out counting them so I can't say exactly, but there's no way I'm looking at all those teams again. As a rough estimate I'd say maybe 7-10 of the Sure Hands guys had no Block.
So what does this suggest? Strip Ball wins over Tackle for Blackbox Majors, at least in this sample. Wrestle wins over Tackle, too. (Strictly for the purpose of knocking the ball lose.) Does Wrestle win over Strip Ball? A lot of considerations may go into that equation. On a player who doesn't come with Block you'll probably take Wrestle first just to reduce turnovers. But even on a Wardancer or Blitzer the above data suggests that Wrestle is a pretty useful sacking skill. Of course, when the Troll intercepts the pass you still want your Stripper around. ;-)
Comments
Posted by Roland on 2015-04-21 16:59:18
Strip ball is for elves, no?
Posted by cdassak on 2015-04-21 17:00:34
Frogs too.
Posted by Harad on 2015-04-21 17:22:01
Strip ball is obviously the skill that applies to the most dice rolls and so there is value in that. At the same time there is the probably incalculable of getting the ball away or preventing your opponent recovering it. Which varies depending on race etc.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2015-04-21 19:03:29
Actually, I would disagree based on the numbers you posted. Tackle and Wrestle would work against all 86 teams. Strip Ball would not work against 59 of the 86 teams assuming they get the ball onto their Sure Handed ballcarrier. At high TV, Strip Ball is going to see less use even though it affects 3 sides of the dice when the opponent does not have Sure Hands. Still, it's worth taking. As to when to take it, probably after Wrestle while the team is still at low TV (under 1800); so Wrestle, Strip Ball, Tackle in that order. If you are developing a new sacker on a well-established team at higher TV (above 1800), I'd probably go Wrestle, Tackle, Strip Ball in that order.
Posted by DukeTyrion on 2015-04-21 19:19:08
On my Wood Elves, I go Strip Ball, Wrestle, Tackle. However, in a way Tackle reduced the effectiveness of Strip Ball.
Strip Ball works great if the opponent can't get the call to their Sure Hands carrier, for any reason and is 3/6 against a dodge player. However, once you get Tackle it becomes 2/6 (as with Tackle 1/6 is now a POW).
Wrestle is always 1/6 (and has no counter), Tackle is 1/6 only if they have dodge.
So, the big winner at high TV has to be Wrestle (probably followed by Tackle) and the big winner at low TV, has to be Strip Ball (followed by Wrestle).
Strip Ball works great if the opponent can't get the call to their Sure Hands carrier, for any reason and is 3/6 against a dodge player. However, once you get Tackle it becomes 2/6 (as with Tackle 1/6 is now a POW).
Wrestle is always 1/6 (and has no counter), Tackle is 1/6 only if they have dodge.
So, the big winner at high TV has to be Wrestle (probably followed by Tackle) and the big winner at low TV, has to be Strip Ball (followed by Wrestle).
Posted by bigGuy on 2015-04-21 19:46:45
Only Strip ball is not enough. Player with the Strip ball must be able to hit ball carrier... So, he needs high agility, or leap, or both (two heads also helps ... or stunty...)
I took Strip Ball on [url=https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=9131937]3AG T-Ra[/url], and its the most useless skill ever. I succesfuly used it maybe twice in 100+ games
I took Strip Ball on [url=https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=9131937]3AG T-Ra[/url], and its the most useless skill ever. I succesfuly used it maybe twice in 100+ games
Posted by happygrue on 2015-04-21 20:19:28
As a primary sacker (assuming you have some tackle elsewhere) I like Wrestle then strip in most cases. Secondary sacker gets wrestle and tackle. I often prefer to take wrestle/strip/dauntless on a player like a human/wood elf/slann catcher who is st 2 but very mobile. Wrestle/strip/dauntless actually has pretty amazing odds of getting the ball out against most targets. St 4 blodge but no sure hands? -2d still has 70% chance of working. St 3 blodge SH? Well, if dauntless works and you can get an assist then even your st 2 dude can take him down with wrestle (or pow) 55% of the time. For me the mobility of the sacker is very important, as not being able to reach the target has a 0% chance of getting the ball out, and one failed attempt and a prone sacker can sometimes be the end of your defense if they can't get back into position.
I tend not to tackle wrestle/tackle/strip because as DT mentioned above they lose some synergy stacking those all on the same player (especially as a WD who has block already). I usually opt for dauntless or something else that can help them. Though on a lino with G assess only then it starts to make sense.
I tend not to tackle wrestle/tackle/strip because as DT mentioned above they lose some synergy stacking those all on the same player (especially as a WD who has block already). I usually opt for dauntless or something else that can help them. Though on a lino with G assess only then it starts to make sense.
Posted by PainState on 2015-04-21 20:39:26
I always go Wrestle/Tackle/leap/stripball and if I have to roll a double for leap I take it on the first double roll and forgo dodge. A leaper sacker, even one who needs a 4+ to leap, is a much larger threat than a sacker with out leap and just dodge or no dodge.
Wrestle/Tackle is ideal because it defeats blodge. Since you have no idea of your opponents skill set before the match wrestle/Tackle is always a preferable to just wrestle/stripball.
Wrestle/Tackle is ideal because it defeats blodge. Since you have no idea of your opponents skill set before the match wrestle/Tackle is always a preferable to just wrestle/stripball.
Posted by bghandras on 2015-04-21 20:57:02
Most games are decided on the trenches, and not within the cage (aka leaping). So I usually have a few wrestler to make sure that no blodger is safe on the open field. This is an extremely low cost investment. Plus I don't necessarily need tackle.
I admit that this works better in a table top like setting, where you build a team from 1100, then choose a few skills. I always hated choosing tackle for those purposes.
I admit that this works better in a table top like setting, where you build a team from 1100, then choose a few skills. I always hated choosing tackle for those purposes.
Posted by Rabe on 2015-04-21 22:28:32
Hmmm, this reminds me that my Monsters don't have a properly built sacker right now. Outrageous!
Posted by PaddyMick on 2015-04-22 11:56:16
Once you have your sacking skills, don't forget NOS and catch to inercept dump offs ;p Go back and count dump off ball carriers!
Posted by the_Sage on 2015-04-23 15:03:36
I value wrestle, tackle and leap (on AG4+, or 3 with VLL) most for sacking. Strip ball is really a ST2 skill, or a low TV skill imo. Sure, I'll give it to a wardancer or a linefrog sometimes. But wracklers are my favorites.
Posted by the_Sage on 2015-04-23 15:03:36
I value wrestle, tackle and leap (on AG4+, or 3 with VLL) most for sacking. Strip ball is really a ST2 skill, or a low TV skill imo. Sure, I'll give it to a wardancer or a linefrog sometimes. But wracklers are my favorites.