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2013-01-23 21:03:34
25 votes, rating 4.4
25 votes, rating 4.4
Brutal flings
When asked about Plasmoid "CRP+" and the addition of AG4 fling positional, I generally answer it's the worst idea I've ever heard. Flings could use a buff, yes, but not this kind of buff. If you do that, you're gonna see AG5 flings everywhere.
What's wrong with that? That's pretty simple. An AG5 fling can land on a 2+ after a TTM. With 4 AG4+ positionals, you could easily have an AG4/5 catcher with Sure Hands and stuff like Catch, Diving Catch, Kick-off Return, Sprint, Sure Feet, ..., an AG5 cannon ball with Catch, Sprint, Sure Feet, and hopefully +MA, and a tree with Pass and NoS. Basically, with such a team, whenever you have the ball, you can score. That's not the kind of games I want to play.
TTM is a cheat. I have nothing against cheats, and I use TTM a lot, especially at mid/high TV where it's incredibly hard to stay competitive with flings. But it should remain what it is: a risky move for a high reward. TTM (when it's the ball carrier) should be a last resort move, not something you do without thinking about it.
TTM are nevertheless funny. They add randomness to the game, and they're basically the only thing that makes flings not completely hopeless. But they're also funny because they're kinda random. Remove the randomness, and you also remove the fun part.
But what really bothers me is the fact I know if I had an AG5 fling, I wouldn't play how I like to play: caging, hopefully bashing, advancing one yard per turn, and scoring. I wouldn't bother: I'd just throw the midget - job done. And blame the dice if you lose, because that'd take a snake.
For me, caging with flings is truly the most entertaining thing there is on a BB pitch. And that brings me to my point. Forget my rant about Danish non-sense and TTM. Today, the 3 most badass flings in Ranked became the top 3 most blocks flings, all time.
Congratulation to the most entertaining fling ever - yeah, I'm talking about Pipin: you'll be forever remembered, the monster Bob Berserkling, also known as the vampling, and the newest inductee Melwyn Cheeseheart.
Next objective: the top casualties (Pipin is already #1). Both my trees are also going after Mr T, and they definitely will make it.
Yeah, that's how I wanna play fling. :)
What's wrong with that? That's pretty simple. An AG5 fling can land on a 2+ after a TTM. With 4 AG4+ positionals, you could easily have an AG4/5 catcher with Sure Hands and stuff like Catch, Diving Catch, Kick-off Return, Sprint, Sure Feet, ..., an AG5 cannon ball with Catch, Sprint, Sure Feet, and hopefully +MA, and a tree with Pass and NoS. Basically, with such a team, whenever you have the ball, you can score. That's not the kind of games I want to play.
TTM is a cheat. I have nothing against cheats, and I use TTM a lot, especially at mid/high TV where it's incredibly hard to stay competitive with flings. But it should remain what it is: a risky move for a high reward. TTM (when it's the ball carrier) should be a last resort move, not something you do without thinking about it.
TTM are nevertheless funny. They add randomness to the game, and they're basically the only thing that makes flings not completely hopeless. But they're also funny because they're kinda random. Remove the randomness, and you also remove the fun part.
But what really bothers me is the fact I know if I had an AG5 fling, I wouldn't play how I like to play: caging, hopefully bashing, advancing one yard per turn, and scoring. I wouldn't bother: I'd just throw the midget - job done. And blame the dice if you lose, because that'd take a snake.
For me, caging with flings is truly the most entertaining thing there is on a BB pitch. And that brings me to my point. Forget my rant about Danish non-sense and TTM. Today, the 3 most badass flings in Ranked became the top 3 most blocks flings, all time.
Congratulation to the most entertaining fling ever - yeah, I'm talking about Pipin: you'll be forever remembered, the monster Bob Berserkling, also known as the vampling, and the newest inductee Melwyn Cheeseheart.
Next objective: the top casualties (Pipin is already #1). Both my trees are also going after Mr T, and they definitely will make it.
Yeah, that's how I wanna play fling. :)
Comments
Posted by latulike on 2013-01-23 21:04:45
Yes.
Posted by blader4411 on 2013-01-23 21:10:06
They'd be weak even with an AG4 positional. M5 AV6 is just too brutal against them.
Posted by Kam on 2013-01-23 21:15:58
Don't get me wrong blader: I'm not saying AG4 positionals would make flings an over-powered team. All I'm saying is OTTD would become incredibly easy (way easier than with a MA10 Sprint rat for instance), and that would change the gameplay of flings (which is generally not a good idea).
That being said, I wouldn't say no to an AV buff.
That being said, I wouldn't say no to an AV buff.
Posted by oryx on 2013-01-23 21:37:02
How about 2 str3 G access "pro" flings? =D
Posted by Kam on 2013-01-23 21:42:41
Dunno about ST3, but G access, definitely. A fling who doesn't roll a double is worthless. That's what make building a fling team a pita. :)
Posted by akaRenton on 2013-01-23 21:53:59
I agree with Kam, and I'm a coach who also likes to cage from time to time but if I'm honest...when I still had Buckminster Briar active, pretty much all I had to do to win was get him the ball and throw. Unless you have a few blodge or ST+ flings it's a lot harder to cage with them. I just played my first game with my shiny new ST3 fling, and it made getting enough assists onto the ball carrier or keeping hold of a ball so much easier.
Ag4 makes a fling great, and puts ag5 within easy reach which makes them insanely easy to play. Especially if they also get Block/SS etc.
While I use TTM way more than Kam, I would rather it stay unpredictable for the most part and keep the fun and humour in flings.
yes they're a PITA to build, but so much satisfying to win with and skill up because of it.
Don't change a thing about them.
Ag4 makes a fling great, and puts ag5 within easy reach which makes them insanely easy to play. Especially if they also get Block/SS etc.
While I use TTM way more than Kam, I would rather it stay unpredictable for the most part and keep the fun and humour in flings.
yes they're a PITA to build, but so much satisfying to win with and skill up because of it.
Don't change a thing about them.
Posted by Dalfort on 2013-01-23 22:07:23
Personally I would prefer to make Sure Feet carry a landng RR, not give it to them but when they skill and get it. just my thoughts :)
Gratz on the 3 flings :)
Gratz on the 3 flings :)
Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-01-23 22:07:52
Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-01-23 22:06:03
If you have AG4 Haflings, then you wouldn't be hitting with both Treemen on a regular basis. I don't see a problem with it. I just started really using Halflings lately. I think every Fling should have AG 4. It would make the team competitive. Lets face it, anyone who has used flings knows that they fly off the pitch. Your continuously down players. If the cost of them was raised to 60k a piece, then AG4 is totally worth it. The likely hood of getting a chef would be lowered, because the TV would raised quite a bit. You probably wouldn't have as many Flings on the roster, because most guys playing Flings try to keep the TV low. My Flings [url= http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=707652]Public Shame[/url] would have raised 36 TV points with that. They would at TV 153. Sure they all would have AG4, but still no other real skills. I'd be giving up inducements more regularly. A starting Roster would look something like this:
Mock AG4 Roster.
Treemen x2= 240
Halflings x9= 540
RRs x 3= 180
Total 960
Rather than a typical:
Treemen x2= 240
Halflings x12= 360
RRs x 3= 180
Apoth= 50
Total 830
The mock is still not the most ideal, as you are continuously losing players throughout the game. Remember its more regular when they have AV6 and Stunty. They lose players faster than a walk through No Mans Land circa 1916. Maybe some play testing would be called for in this circumstance. Perhaps giving them all wrestle would be more beneficial, and be more unique.
If you have AG4 Haflings, then you wouldn't be hitting with both Treemen on a regular basis. I don't see a problem with it. I just started really using Halflings lately. I think every Fling should have AG 4. It would make the team competitive. Lets face it, anyone who has used flings knows that they fly off the pitch. Your continuously down players. If the cost of them was raised to 60k a piece, then AG4 is totally worth it. The likely hood of getting a chef would be lowered, because the TV would raised quite a bit. You probably wouldn't have as many Flings on the roster, because most guys playing Flings try to keep the TV low. My Flings [url= http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=707652]Public Shame[/url] would have raised 36 TV points with that. They would at TV 153. Sure they all would have AG4, but still no other real skills. I'd be giving up inducements more regularly. A starting Roster would look something like this:
Mock AG4 Roster.
Treemen x2= 240
Halflings x9= 540
RRs x 3= 180
Total 960
Rather than a typical:
Treemen x2= 240
Halflings x12= 360
RRs x 3= 180
Apoth= 50
Total 830
The mock is still not the most ideal, as you are continuously losing players throughout the game. Remember its more regular when they have AV6 and Stunty. They lose players faster than a walk through No Mans Land circa 1916. Maybe some play testing would be called for in this circumstance. Perhaps giving them all wrestle would be more beneficial, and be more unique.
Posted by Kam on 2013-01-23 22:16:45
Another great idea Dalfort: Sure Feet could either reroll a failed landing or a GFI. That would make a very interesting non-double skill.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2013-01-23 23:16:40
I say I'd be more than happy playing you and your AG5 fling. All you have to do is toss him to win? That just exposes how much picking you fling coaches indulge in - perhaps if you took on a decent coach/team every once in a while you'd have a totally different perspective on things.
How many games did you win in the majors with your flings again? Oh...
"All I'd have to do to win..." Get over yourselves!
How many games did you win in the majors with your flings again? Oh...
"All I'd have to do to win..." Get over yourselves!
Posted by Kam on 2013-01-23 23:27:11
Chainsaw: the "toss an AG5 fling to win" part is pretty much true 1) at low TV, 2) if you pick your opponent.
Again, at mid/high TV, tossing a fling becomes more a desperate measure because it's MUCH harder to outbash your opponent. And anyway, whatever the TV is, if your adversary is as skilled as you are, you're gonna lose.
But what am I saying? /boo, greenskins!
Again, at mid/high TV, tossing a fling becomes more a desperate measure because it's MUCH harder to outbash your opponent. And anyway, whatever the TV is, if your adversary is as skilled as you are, you're gonna lose.
But what am I saying? /boo, greenskins!
Posted by krysskroz on 2013-01-23 23:36:50
Let's face it, the entire point of Flings is to lose and have fun doing it. Sometimes even a monkey falls out of the tree, and you win a match (more likely in R when you get to pick the teams you play). I would love to see some changes to make them a tier 2 or 2.5 team, but honestly that is just because I play them in L where I am stuck with them and having to play Dwarves and CDorfs and such repeatedly. The charm of Flings is in the fun factor. If you cannot lose and have fun, you have zero business playing with them.
With that said, I don't think an AG4 positional is at all over powered considering their AV and MA (even with some extra skills), but I would like to see some creative and fun positionals instead (NOS/Dauntless - Hero or something fun, maybe Frenzy or Juggernaut ST3 - Munchie crazed fling); those would keep with the fun factor and add some variety. Variety is the major problem I have with flings. They die so fast and have to roll doubles to do anything even remotely fun with them.
With that said, I don't think an AG4 positional is at all over powered considering their AV and MA (even with some extra skills), but I would like to see some creative and fun positionals instead (NOS/Dauntless - Hero or something fun, maybe Frenzy or Juggernaut ST3 - Munchie crazed fling); those would keep with the fun factor and add some variety. Variety is the major problem I have with flings. They die so fast and have to roll doubles to do anything even remotely fun with them.
Posted by Shraaaag on 2013-01-24 10:08:43
I think flings should get a third tree :)
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-01-24 10:38:31
I'd say give them:
0-2 Halfling heroes: 6237 dodge, right stuff (stunty?) GA - PS 50k
This would let you make a blodge sure hands fling, thus suporting caging play, while not making TTM too much easier (just the kick-off return).
I'm not too sure about whether to give stunty to this guy though. Not giving it makes them more durable and less cagebreaking, which is good. With stunty they'd get to wrestle strip ball too easily, which is is a bit much, I think.
Gratz on the most badass fling trio ever, Kam! Big fan of the team!
0-2 Halfling heroes: 6237 dodge, right stuff (stunty?) GA - PS 50k
This would let you make a blodge sure hands fling, thus suporting caging play, while not making TTM too much easier (just the kick-off return).
I'm not too sure about whether to give stunty to this guy though. Not giving it makes them more durable and less cagebreaking, which is good. With stunty they'd get to wrestle strip ball too easily, which is is a bit much, I think.
Gratz on the most badass fling trio ever, Kam! Big fan of the team!
Posted by truckerpunk on 2013-01-24 17:16:05
@ Chainsaw: "all you have to do is toss him to win? That just exposes how much picking you fling coaches indulge in - perhaps if you took on a decent coach/team every once in a while you'd have a totally different perspective on things".
WOW! Talk about generalizing all fling coaches! Not appreciated...
WOW! Talk about generalizing all fling coaches! Not appreciated...
Posted by pythrr on 2013-01-24 17:23:16
it's a comment from chainsaw - what did you expect? ;)
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2013-01-24 18:36:32
Not even Puggy has AV7, way too overpowered!
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-01-24 19:15:18
Melwyn SO needs strip ball for legend.
Posted by bghandras on 2013-01-24 22:07:39
"I think flings should get a third tree :)"
I agree. Or 2 smaller trees, like a young one from the lord of the rings. I have never saw any idea about it, but one direction could be this:
(Beware, this is a concept only, not a refined version)
Young tree (name is just indication)
Movement: 3
Strength: 5 (or 4 if the price and fluff suggest that way)
Agility: 1
Armor: 9
Skills: Take root, Throw teammate
I agree. Or 2 smaller trees, like a young one from the lord of the rings. I have never saw any idea about it, but one direction could be this:
(Beware, this is a concept only, not a refined version)
Young tree (name is just indication)
Movement: 3
Strength: 5 (or 4 if the price and fluff suggest that way)
Agility: 1
Armor: 9
Skills: Take root, Throw teammate
Posted by Kam on 2013-01-25 11:54:54
the_sage: that would be a no brainer, but I can't see her living another 80 or 90 games to become a legend. :P
Posted by Rabe on 2013-01-26 16:23:14
And you were so right about it... :-/