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Java (24641)
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Overall
Record
945/261/290
Win Percentage
72%
Archive

2024

2024-03-20 01:01:29
rating 6
2024-02-13 09:20:56
rating 6

2023

2023-11-29 21:07:30
rating 6
2023-11-13 21:34:29
rating 6
2023-05-03 13:33:15
rating 6
2023-04-20 11:32:38
rating 6
2023-02-11 10:12:54
rating 6
2023-02-03 16:04:56
rating 6

2022

2022-12-28 19:17:52
rating 5.6
2022-09-15 22:14:42
rating 4.8
2022-09-07 22:09:11
rating 5.5
2022-08-29 22:51:11
rating 5.9
2022-08-24 00:17:20
rating 5.2
2022-05-16 23:52:45
rating 5.7
2022-03-08 11:38:12
rating 6
2022-02-05 12:11:11
rating 5.7
2022-02-03 01:25:33
rating 6

2021

2021-10-09 14:02:07
rating 5.6
2021-09-26 23:51:11
rating 5.5
2021-09-15 10:13:14
rating 6
2021-09-09 17:53:40
rating 5.5
2021-07-20 11:11:29
rating 5.9
2021-06-28 08:45:29
rating 5.7
2021-04-02 19:58:27
rating 5.5
2021-01-22 19:46:21
rating 5.8
2021-01-13 20:53:01
rating 5.4

2020

2020-12-28 22:44:11
rating 5.3
2020-12-10 15:22:29
rating 4.9
2020-12-05 17:17:24
rating 5.4
2020-11-28 09:57:39
rating 5.9
2020-11-20 15:08:31
rating 4.8
2020-10-24 23:58:51
rating 6
2020-10-17 10:05:11
rating 5.5
2020-10-13 10:36:47
rating 5.2
2020-07-17 07:27:24
rating 5.7
2020-05-08 14:42:09
rating 5.9
2020-04-13 11:37:55
rating 5.3

2019

2019-12-07 21:10:39
rating 5.6
2019-05-25 00:49:44
rating 5.4
2022-02-03 01:25:33
11 votes, rating 6
BB20 Vamps - (Almost) One Season In
First, gotta say a huge thanks to Christer and CJ for making all of this run smoothly as it has and giving us the chance to play with the new toys.

...

Oh boy, here comes the rant. But I SWEAR it's brief. And with no ill will towards anyone personally, it's all in jest, about a game of toys and dice.

It's been more than a year since my overly favourable review of the new trait and the new roster's prospects. It didn't exactly make waves, and the few who read or heard of it probably dismissed it instantly. Which is fair, who the heck am I?

Since then, I've occasionally tried (and repeatedly failed) to put forward that thesis in a variety of ways. Mostly by trolling.

Comparing winrates, as an argument one way or the other, really doesn't work, because the BB16 winrates include the record from some monster teams with 6 vamps and twice as many statups and a truckload of rerolls... that you can't really compare to a bunch of 1-5 games low TV teams, the majority of which are probaly coached by people that didn't play a lot of Vampires before.

When the roster grabbed a big TT tournament in England, commentators blamed the overly favourable ruleset, or the sending off of extra players rule that apparently made one of the 6 out of 6 wins possible. They're still obviously rubbish, it's just that when something is rubbish and you give it too many buffs... it becomes unbeatable. Is that how it works?

Anyway, early when C opened we saw some fantastic rookie vamp plays from Strider84, and also Mazylis has been running them with an impressive record. My Khemris got spanked by Dutchlife's vamps in one of the Minors. I've now slowly played my way through the first 14 matches of a rookie vamp team, and this is what they look like after:

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?id=1041029

A few scattered first impressions

1) 2+ Gaze is MASSIVE

2) new pro is nice but of limited scope compared to before (only during the player's activation)

3) no turnovers and not disappearing from the pitch is good, losing block and dodge when angry and alone is bad (thanks FAQs)

4) I don't think I ever used journeymen, which is a thing that happened quite often to battered and strapped for cash BB16 vamp teams

5) the new cash system is probably the cause of (4) as you very quickly start filling the bench anytime you want, even firing MNGs when it suits you

6) random Gs are nice on thralls but it's probably worth to wait for 6spps and go for random S, and build guard and MB thrall, or maybe not

7) because of 4 and 5, I rarely ended much lower on numbers than my opponents, and only ever lost one vampire

8) you probably want some DP/wrestle/frenzy at some point because mighty blow isn't too viable anymore

9) the team is still a nightmare puzzle of positioning and turn ordering, which was also the main appeal before

10) 3-4 vamps works fine (same as before as far as normal, non-perpetual runs were concerned)

How does the team looks after it has been redrafted?

Assuming that the last match doesn't kill any of the vamps or the one good thrall, the plan is to keep those 5, and keep the apo and the 3 rerolls, plus 8 rookie thralls, and that should add up to 1250k +100k for the 5 agent fees. Which is kind of a nice team already. In second season they should be able to grab 1-2 extra skills right off the bat (heh, bats) if they don't die in game 1, and replenish the bench with the first winnings.

Are they OP? No. But are they still a nice puzzle to solve, fun and challenging to just the right level? Yes. Will they defy established wisdom even further, when somebody better than me starts playing them seriously? Absolutely.

BB would be sadder and flatter without them. Try them sometime.
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Comments
Posted by Malmir on 2022-02-03 07:28:54
I didn't know 3 was a thing so I appreciated you telling me during our game - cheers for that. A good write up and you've got me thinking about giving them a proper go sometime (something I've never really done).
Posted by det on 2022-02-03 07:57:17
I'm a bb noob but I was happy someone had a positive pov on them.
I just received as a present willy gorgeous vamps and plan on trying them lots.
Have really no idea where to start but I'll watch some replays ofnthe guy you mentioned!
Posted by CroixFer on 2022-02-03 08:03:06
Beware. Malmir may play vamps. A major win for them in the making?
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2022-02-03 15:54:01
They're one of the teams I intend to play when the scheduler arrives.

You have missed out on pointing out that not only is the Gaze 2+, but losing your tacklezones in BB2020 has a lot more implications for what skills you can use than it did before... :) (although "losing block and dodge when angry" hints at this).
Posted by mekutata on 2022-02-03 16:48:33
They not bad, just a bit pale.
Posted by Schwifty on 2022-02-03 18:43:03
Thanks for sharing. Interesting read. I'd like to see how they would evolve in a blackbox environment. Can't help to notice the races your teams encountered do not include a couple of teams that can give you a very hard time (orcs, dwarf, undead, lizards). I'm not judging, big respect for playing vampires! I haven't played them in this edition but it is a team I try to avoid playing with

Cheers!
Posted by Java on 2022-02-03 22:32:52
@AD
you're right, but I didn't set out to write a full playbook or an explainer

@Schwifty
I have mixed feelings about the 4 teams mentioned - I don't particularly think of them as nemesis for vamps, I tied chorfs so why not these others? Lizards are very sackable. If the removals don't come early, all these teams need to be very careful. Anyway, filling the grid with them, so gotta face them at some point, we shall see.

There is no reason to spin box without variety tweaks, as a sizable fraction of the coach base only wants to use safe teams in favourable match ups against rubes that didn't get the memo, it's basically a race to the bottom and the bottom is the dorf mirror match :P
Posted by Java on 2022-02-03 22:35:27
next up: the vampire playbook by me and AD
Posted by Java on 2022-02-04 00:18:53
@Schwifty https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4362559
abnormal amount of losses, dismal second half, I'm fairly happy with the salvaged tie :)
lost the nice triple skill thrall, redraft now is probably even easier to think about. On to other teams now!
Posted by BeanBelly on 2022-02-04 13:27:55
Good write up, and nice to see all the races on the pitch playing. I agree with Schwifty that a truer test would be to coach them without picking coach level and race.
Posted by Java on 2022-02-05 11:25:56
Win record or results aren't the subject of the blog post, so there's no true test needed. Regarding the picking, when I go on gamefinder I just greenlight every team I see whose roster I haven't faced yet, for the purpose of gridfilling.

The only reason I would refuse a match offer would be for overbuilt teams with dozens of matches played, or someone who's only offering/using safe Tier 1 options, as you shouldn't enjoy variety if you're not contributing to it, in my view at least.
Posted by Verminardo on 2022-02-06 12:19:28
I've yet to face them in the new rules. I generally don't like playing against Vamps as they force you to play a different game than with any other race. And it often feels very passive, you basically just try to prevent them from doing their thing and wait for them to implode. Which they will now do less often.
Posted by Java on 2022-02-16 22:06:52
one more for the collection https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=1065338
Posted by Java on 2022-07-09 19:09:44
honorable mention https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=1083182