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Java
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Java (24641)
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Mega-Star
Overall
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Win Percentage
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Archive

2024

2024-03-20 01:01:29
rating 6
2024-02-13 09:20:56
rating 6

2023

2023-11-29 21:07:30
rating 6
2023-11-13 21:34:29
rating 6
2023-05-03 13:33:15
rating 6
2023-04-20 11:32:38
rating 6
2023-02-11 10:12:54
rating 6
2023-02-03 16:04:56
rating 6

2022

2022-12-28 19:17:52
rating 5.6
2022-09-15 22:14:42
rating 4.8
2022-09-07 22:09:11
rating 5.5
2022-08-29 22:51:11
rating 5.9
2022-08-24 00:17:20
rating 5.2
2022-05-16 23:52:45
rating 5.7
2022-03-08 11:38:12
rating 6
2022-02-05 12:11:11
rating 5.7
2022-02-03 01:25:33
rating 6

2021

2021-10-09 14:02:07
rating 5.6
2021-09-26 23:51:11
rating 5.5
2021-09-15 10:13:14
rating 6
2021-09-09 17:53:40
rating 5.5
2021-07-20 11:11:29
rating 5.9
2021-06-28 08:45:29
rating 5.7
2021-04-02 19:58:27
rating 5.5
2021-01-22 19:46:21
rating 5.8
2021-01-13 20:53:01
rating 5.4

2020

2020-12-28 22:44:11
rating 5.3
2020-12-10 15:22:29
rating 4.9
2020-12-05 17:17:24
rating 5.4
2020-11-28 09:57:39
rating 5.9
2020-11-20 15:08:31
rating 4.8
2020-10-24 23:58:51
rating 6
2020-10-17 10:05:11
rating 5.5
2020-10-13 10:36:47
rating 5.2
2020-07-17 07:27:24
rating 5.7
2020-05-08 14:42:09
rating 5.9
2020-04-13 11:37:55
rating 5.3

2019

2019-12-07 21:10:39
rating 5.6
2019-05-25 00:49:44
rating 5.4
2022-02-05 12:11:11
7 votes, rating 5.7
How To Train Your Legend
The current rules are making people converge towards a common denominator in regards to your faster skilling players, i.e. the ball carrier.

GA/SP Ghouls for example will mostly go Block, then Sure Hands, then Stats, Stats, maybe Stats again if +AG hasn't happened yet. +AV isn't too bad for them if you want to keep rolling stats after the two +MA mandatory boosts.

GP/AS Thrower archetypes like a Thro-Ra or a Dwarf Runner will go Block, then maybe Leader or On The Ball, or even straight to stats, again settling for double +MA if +AG doesn't materialise. Dodge is a nice to have option when you don't like the stats you are offered.

This is all pretty straightforward. If you hoped for increased variety from the new skill system, the obvious optimal path doesn't seem to bring it at all. On the other hand, it makes building your freaks a lot less random and a lot more accessible; while some people liked the luck component in the old system, to be fair it's still there, in the hunt for the +AG unicorn. Almost every carrier in future majors will probably be +2MA with some lucky sods sporting a bit of elfishness on top of it.

There's a difference in development paths coming from the evil teams. Anybody with M access has a lot of interesting Primary skills for a carrier, such as Big Hand, Two Heads, Extra Arms, etc. that might actually compete with stats as you can make a poor man's +AG with just 2 primary skills. Here the order in which you pick stuff might actually vary, so I was interested in how the cost in terms of Star Player Points would pan out depending on the order in which you take them. Of course, the order might impact how fast you can reach the next stage, as the progress is not steady and might be influenced by what you pick fist along the way.

There is also the possibility that you start building your carrier from a player that rolled a nice random in the first stages of the team, which makes them marginally more efficient in terms of TV and SPPs, but that seems quite eccessive in terms of attention to detail. That said, on a new team it's probably a good idea to start carrying with that one goat that rolled a random Block or Sure Hands as it will be marginally cheaper during redraft.

It turns out the order doesn't seem to matter much anyway. Two primary skills followed by two Stat rolls cost exactly the same as two Stat rolls followed by two primary skills. It's kind of neat how it follows naturally from the way they priced it. There is a slight difference if you look at the costs of the sixth skilling options, but it's so far into the future it's no big concern for most coaches.

I wanted to discuss this without turning it into "BB20 BAD" as it sometimes goes when people ponder the changes, so what do you think? Is it nice that now everyone can build the optimal choice for the majors without having to grind for a hundred matches, or does it take away from the thrill of the skillups?
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Comments
Posted by C0ddlefish on 2022-02-05 15:00:08
I think it's a little difficult to judge until we have redraft and we see the impact of multiple season (stacking agents fees etc.). To me this is the main mechanism that might push you off the path of always building the optimum player.

Personally I'm not sure I like that we've gone from the excitement of the lucky double/stat roll to the 'excitement' of getting a key skill for slightly less TV.
Posted by MattDakka on 2022-02-05 16:54:52
"Is it nice that now everyone can build the optimal choice for the majors without having to grind for a hundred matches, or does it take away from the thrill of the skillups?"
In my opinion it takes away the thrill of the skillups and removes the coach skill about building the best possible player with the skill ups you rolled.
When every Dwarf Runner you see is MA 8 suddenly no Dwarf Runner is special anymore.
+MA should be less likely than +AV. Also, +MA is underpriced, while +ST is overpriced.
Posted by Nelphine on 2022-02-05 19:29:31
Problem is that +MA and +Agi are underpriced on base players; without modifying rosters, you kind of need +MA where it is to balance that. However, +Str ignores the pricing on base players and is just vastly overpriced. I still don't understand in what circumstance 80k is ever worth it.
Posted by BeanBelly on 2022-02-05 21:41:18
Great blog, interesting talking points. Personally I must be playing slightly lower TV teams, as I have not met any double stat-up Carriers. Like you said often it is Block then Sure Hands before anything else.

I was hoping BB2020 meant less grinding of Major teams. A more open field, with younger teams doing well, though quite possibly the same coaches!

I don't believe you had to either grind or pick to to make a decent team before. I had ~22 Black Box and Brawl matches with my Undead before entering the UI last year. Obvs I didn't win it - not even close - but I did okay. I do hope that younger teams become competitive at the sharp end of Majors.
Posted by SideshowBob on 2022-02-06 06:43:47
My concern when I learned about the new skill system was that we will probably see a lot of blueprint-type teams in the majors. And it is still my concern. Certain skill and stat paths are just too strong.
Posted by ClayInfinity on 2022-02-06 09:01:09
Agree with C0ddlefish's first comment. Agents fees and rate of spp gain will dictate how long it takes to a) get to the nirvana of 2 stats + 2 primaries and b) be able to play with this player before he becomes cost prohibitive.

You analyse the spp purchase tree well and pose good points that I agree with but I doubt that fumbbl will be awash with +2MA block sure hand clones due to the financial restrictions that go with seasons and the ever tempting random to save 10k at the risk of getting a dud skill.

Due to the huge number of games, there will be players who luck out and get good early star ball handlers, but they will be in the minority versus those who get deviated off the path by the longevity of their pursuit or the new money-ball mechancics we will be playing with.

Great post though.
Posted by Java on 2022-02-06 13:20:16
I'll be a bit self-referential in this comment, but you can probably find similar players on other people's teams. Note that all these teams aren't played beyond one season of 15 matches.

Thro-Ra https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14379794
Khorngor, dead in game 15 https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14516974
Pestigor https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14379950
Beastman https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14369460 should probably go for stats next
Vampire https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14326101
Ghoul https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14580481 and https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14543027
Runner https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=14348117

All of them at their 4th skillup or pretty close to it, I didn't come up with this blueprint, it felt natural after a bit, and I also saw it to a much greater extent on teams from coaches that played on beyond game 15. It can also be done on other teams as well, this list is not exhaustive.


Posted by Java on 2022-02-06 13:25:30
Add to this the fact that redraft doesn't have to happen at game 15 (my Khemri entered a Minor for 1 match) but it can wait until a tournament (smack, brawl, etc) is done, and you're pretty much guaranteed a 4th level up.

THEN you have a second season, where you can keep looking for stats or just finesse the speedster blueprint with what you like, and then you have a 30+ match team tuned for a major.

I'm not sure there ever was any skill in rolling box cars or whatever and building from there, it was just a cycling grind to me, but I agree with C0d's assessment that the thrill is a bit faded now.
Posted by MattDakka on 2022-02-07 12:10:34
Cycling players in BB2016 didn't ensure stat freaks (although it increased the chance of having one), in BB2020 having a +2 MA ball carrier is automatic and cheaper in terms of TV.

In BB2016 a WD like this was possible:
https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=12475154 (an example of unconventional build using a double roll to take Pass)
while in BB2020 I would just try to get stats (+MA and +AG) and stick to the blueprint.
I would choose Secondary skill just to get either Guard, MB or Break Tackle, but never Pass. The BB2020 build still works but it's not as original as the BB2016 build.
Posted by stej on 2022-02-09 18:14:34
Remove a random element from the game and replace with an optionl random element. Looks like certainty is more valuable than the TV savings