Posted by awambawamb on 2019-10-12 12:21:02

perhaps displaying a warning sign on the cross-ruleset matchups to avoid team locking?

Posted by harvestmouse on 2019-10-12 12:45:18

+1 to allowing/coding this.

Posted by gansus on 2019-10-12 14:13:28

I also think it is a good idea!!

Posted by Nelphine on 2019-10-12 14:30:43

I think it would be too prone to abuse. We already see people who have no idea what their opponents teams should have with things like tilean teams with no tilean linemen getting games. We already see people who don't look at what their opponents teams actually have in many match reports.

This would allow people to build an all str 4 team with clawmb, that only cost 1 million tv, and then play it against standard teams. It would be very ripe for abuse.

Posted by koadah on 2019-10-12 16:04:09

Actually, you can do that now. :)

As I said, highlight non standard teams in a different colour. Maybe have another colour for teams that have been manually modified.

Edit: Oh wait. How can you build an all ST4/CPOMB team for 1000TV? Skills still cost the same TV value, don't they?

Posted by Nelphine on 2019-10-12 16:22:44

No, something like secret league you still set the base price. So if I make a 40k league where the standard player is str 4 instead of str 3, I could make all my teams extremely overpowered compared to standard teams, because in my league, they would still 'be balanced' (in some way, presumably) against each other.

Consider things like Stunty Leeg rosters - they're (generally) clearly weaker than standard rosters for a given TV value. And Secret League carefully tried to follow roughly the same pricing guide as standard. But you could create a league that goes the other way, where the baseline is much stronger.

And with the example of Tilean teams with no Tilean linemen, I think it's obvious that many people wouldn't know what they were getting into even if they had the warning that said these teams are very different.

Posted by koadah on 2019-10-12 17:11:13

That is true. But you can still do all that stuff now in Secret League at the moment.

Is anyone actually doing it?

I suppose we should tighten it up. But that is pretty sad.

The Tilean team is just a disaster.

Posted by Nelphine on 2019-10-12 17:52:58

Right, but I don't even think it's sad. There is a 40k league being developed. Depending on how it goes, it's completely reasonable space marines will be Str 4. My version of that league does embrace that teams should be better, with Str 4 and agi 5 far more common, and claw and mighty blow are plentiful. Someone else suggested mass bombardier without secret weapons could also be reasonable. There's nothing wrong with that, BUT it's definitely not compatible with baseline teams.

If you are interested in this idea, you'd need something more like the option to decide what other rulesets and leagues you could interact with. But that becomes a massive amount of work each time a new ruleset is added. So I don't think overall the idea can work, without removing some of the options that already exist today and allow things like Stunty Leeg and Secret League to flourish.

Posted by koadah on 2019-10-12 18:36:23

Well, it is sad in that I might want to play vs Space Marines. It may be the only game on offer.

Otherwise, I may give up and end up playing poker like last night. ;)

Posted by Nelphine on 2019-10-12 18:41:19

LOL fair!

Posted by harvestmouse on 2019-10-13 00:31:56

Tilean team is such a great concept too. It's a shame. It came from Plasmoid, I believe.

If you cheated 'open' league what would you actually gain? No CR and it should be up to League commissioners to check the history of a team to see if they've been 'gaming the system'.

So apart form adding an inch or 2 to the ego....not much.

Posted by koadah on 2019-10-13 01:47:25

Tilean may be great on table-top but on Fumbbl it requires special coding.

Even without cheats, many Fumbbl coaches are not that great at reading the rules. Of those that read the rules, many are not that great at remembering them. ;)

CR? People like winning. One coach, at one time, would not play League because it affected his win%.

Open League does not have a commissioner. We could check teams when they join a group but you do not need to join a group to play open League.

Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2019-10-13 02:04:08

Yeah, even when SL was brand new and Garion was looking for feedback one coach (who will remain nameless, but I did have a go at) openly admitted selecting games so as to not affect his w/d/l ratio negatively as it was displayed on his about page.

I would bet that he was not as small a minority as people might hope for.

Posted by koadah on 2019-10-13 09:50:47

So, has anyone actually seen one of these cheater teams? Dodgy Tilean aside.

Maybe we should tighten up 303 to ban cross league play. But I don't know how much havoc that would cause.

It would restrict the number of gamefinder games available even further. Though I don't know how much. It would also cause, even more, even more baffling game locks due to ruleset/"league" mismatches.

I have a feeling that we should leave it as it is.

During a quiet period, I may be quite happy to play vs Space Marines, depending on their roster. However, I do see the issue with meeting a "human" team where linos are ST5/MB/Claw for 50k.

If I disconnected in turn 1, would I be the bad guy?

But would this even work? Christer?
We have had trouble before where people have tried to use races that are not on the 303 roster. We got the game mismatch error even though the team successfully imported.

So, is this all a red herring? Are "trusted" rulesets safe?

Of course, commishes could be bribed into tweaking stats and resurrecting players for the promise of free beer at tournaments. But it would have to be a lot of free beer. ;)

A warning that the team had been manually tweaked could be enough here IMO. I'm not sure if the team log is enough to identify commish team tweaks.
It would help if commish tweaks were in red.