Posted by licker on 2013-07-02 19:36:53

You don't have to even play them, you can just spec the matches and realize how unchatty some people are.

Though some of it is language, it's not that people can't converse in a different language, it's that it takes more effort to do so, and thus, some may find it more distracting than others.

Watching 2 spanish speakers play usually has a fair amount of banter at least.

Watching 2 german speakers play though... ;)

Posted by Sp00keh on 2013-07-02 19:42:46

i've got a feeling that you're comparing random games to league games, without realising it - maybe you normally play league mostly, but now you're playing random mostly, and that's the difference, not the region

Posted by dabassman on 2013-07-02 19:44:49

yu silly Americans play for fun? You silly! We play tu krush oponent. KRUSH!

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-02 19:54:35

I play a ton of Box, and some Ranked as well. I am using the leagues as an example for why North Americans look to have more fun.

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-02 19:56:14

what I am confused about is to how I am rated so low, when most people use Language as a way not to talk. How can you read this?

Posted by the.tok on 2013-07-02 20:04:04

I think you underestimate the language barrier.

Myself, playing only in eurozone, have found myself more than once playing a non-so-chatty opponent, but realized around turn 3 that they were speaking french (or italian though I'm not that good at it) and this changed everything when we switched language. It is not they don't understand english, it is just that it takes too much effort for them to be able to enjoy the conversation and the game at the same time, and I fully understand that.

That said, we have our jerks too ;)

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-02 20:10:17

yes, but wouldn't it be polite to at least divulge that early on? Lack of conversation is one thing, but general politeness by saying things like hello or Grats is another. :)

Posted by Wizfall on 2013-07-02 20:16:40

What the tok said.
The language barrier is much more important that you think and it's not a comprehension issue.
When you spec matches between coaches from the same country it is obvious.
Also comparing leagues to random games hehe.
Didn't excuse the basics though (hello, etc...)

Posted by Rabe on 2013-07-02 20:18:30

Germans don't speak while playing each other?! Well, I usually contribute more to the chat than my opponent, no matter if in German or English. Maybe I don't realize it, if he doesn't talk at all. :-D

I don't think I ever played a match against another coach who speaks German without chatting.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was more politeness and chat between NA coaches though. I may be wrong, but I think it's a cultural thing as well as the fact, that most of them live in the same country (or two countries, with Canada). Being from two different countries with different languages to start with, there is more difference and hence probably more insecurity in social contact.

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-02 20:34:06

I would say insecurity at all. But there is more of a lets get along attitude. Maybe its because the Euros have been waring amongst each other for so long now. They have hidden angst and dont wanna speak to each other,

Posted by licker on 2013-07-02 20:57:16

Ahh, I wasn't being serious about the Germans Rabe ;)

I can converse in German or French, but I doubt I could do it well during a game without seriously impacting either the speed I play at or my ability to play well.

On the other hand, I have run into several unpleasant matches over the last year, but I have no idea where those people were from because they simply didn't respond to anything.

I would say that if you don't want to chat that's fine. But at least giving a perfunctory 'hello and have fun' and a 'thanks for the game' at the end are easy enough to do.

I steer clear of the 'good luck' and 'good game' myself since those feel a bit cliche and frequently you don't really mean either of them ;)

Posted by Sp00keh on 2013-07-02 21:19:55

"good luck" and "good game" are important just for the sake of form
its just showing you're observing the form of respect, even if you don't have real respect. its still much better than rude silence

think of all the kung fu films where the opponents bow to each other, and/or do that thing with one hand over the other hand....


"In the orient the Bow does not mean subservience as it is sometimes mistaken in the west. It doesn’t mean that one person is acknowledging the other as a superior or a master, or one is a lesser being even if that person is the Master of the school. Bowing, to the Asian culture, is much the same as shaking hands here. It’s a sign of friendship, respect and mutual admiration.

It is important to understand that when learning Martial Arts knowledge and skills, one must also learn great responsibility, respect and humility. The Bow is a simple sign of these virtues.

There are many interpretations as to the meaning of this etiquette. A widely accepted explanation is that the extended four fingers indicates all Martial Arts in the world or across the four oceans are of the same line and share the same goal, the bent thumb means that the practitioner is modest and humble, to place the fist and palm together means you are willing to make friends through your martial arts practice, and to form a circle with the arms shows that all Martial Artists on earth are of one family."

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-02 21:49:16

Its to bad fumbbl admin can not let this play out. Sad that they take offence to a statement and remove it from the active list.

Posted by koadah on 2013-07-02 22:16:14

What do the admins have to do with it?

'"good luck" and "good game" are important just for the sake of form'

No they are not. You don't need to say good luck if you don't mean it in some way.
Saying 'gg' after a horrible game just makes you look like a right arse.

'GL & HF' when you are coming in with a team designed mainly to rip the other team apart may upset some people too. ;)

If you have something worthwhile to say then say it. But at least think about what you are saying.

Posted by Wizfall on 2013-07-02 22:56:49

I never say good luck, it's ridiculous IMO.
I say hello and have fun and thanks for the game (or sometimes your time instead when i nuffled my oponent) whatever the result is.
Once i got a coach writing me "Hello and enjoy your game".
Was a pact team with 2 CPOMBER and a great DE BC at 1200 TV...lol
I did not say anything....

Posted by koadah on 2013-07-02 23:35:39

"GL" can translate to "I hope your luck is good enough to keep the game close but not good enough to give you the win" ;)

Or maybe "luck not so bad it ruins the game".

Or you could just say "may all your rolls be 1s"

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-03 04:13:15

People should say Hello, and I hope you have fun. Do they mean it? No, but it is nice and polite to say it. Because you dont feel like you should say it, reflects that you are not here to enjoy your game unless you win. Silly.

Posted by koadah on 2013-07-03 08:44:33

The vast majority of coaches offer some kind of greeting before a match. Of the ones that don't I suspect the vast majority will be people who cannot access the chat box because of their screen resolution.
Of the rest, most are probably rookies who don't really know what they are doing.
That probably leaves a (hopefully) small number of coaches who just don't like you. ;)

Not a big deal IMO. :)

Posted by the.tok on 2013-07-03 11:58:51

Just a gut feeling :

I must add that I think that among different cultures, I feel we also have different "BB culture", leading to different things being acceptable or not in chat.

The majority of my online BB games were not done here, but on a french site (RIP FBB), and I wouldn't dare chat here like I did back there, I feel like I would sound like a jerk. We chatted a whole lot more in average, but were more teasing each other all the time, less "nice guy", more "in your face" if you get what I mean

Posted by easilyamused on 2013-07-03 14:21:57

You also have to take the "cyanide" effect into account.

It's not often I come across a coach who doesn't chat and I agree that those coaches do suck the fun out of however long a game is.

More chat FTW.

Posted by Amarock on 2013-07-03 14:58:25

1:hello
1:hf and gl
2:hi!
2:gratz
1:thx
1:gratz
2:thx
2:misclicked
2:thx for the game
1:thx, too
1:see ya
1:bye
2:ciao

For me ... i dont need this ... this is not a conversation and i dont need this polite. I cant say anythink about the other europe players. what you see is normal in my first games, so i do it too, if you read this you see my language barrier most english, scots, canadian, amis and all the other are so nice to say, oh it is very good but i know it isnt and i need a lot of time for writing ... i must find paraphrase to explain what i am thinking or using a dictionary ... if i play fumbbl i have always a tab open for translation.

So yes there is a barrier, in first game i see "hf and gl" and i think "what does that guy want from me?" and i am really angry cause i cant find a translation for "hf and gl"

... so i wrote the same ... perhaps it is friendly ... perhaps it is a provocation, i didnt knew :D

So i am an european, a german that writes, sometimes more, sometimes less in all my last game i started with

1:Hello
1:have a lot of fun
1:and good luck

i comment good moves, like a long pass, or a throwing gobbo, i write "well done" or "gratz" or something like this after scoring of the other coach and i say "thx" or "thank you" after he wrote something like this.

i never write nothing but sometime only what you see high up in this text, only the absolutely necessary ...

[and at least they usually say GG at the end]

GG? Whats means that? You say this is polite, i say what MEANS that? "Good bye", "ciao" or "Danke für das Spiel und aufwiedersehen" that i understand, but i have no fun in writing to people that are kidding me with there secret special shortforms ... really what means this GG ... good game, greater god, go goonie ... ???

To say euros are more competive ... hm i dont think so. But perhaps all euros are chess players and chess players never talk, perhaps they dont write cause they dont want to break your concentration? :D

Write first! In one game i write 5 words and 3 sentences before i see an answer ... after this the ice is broken ... i see it like that, i want to talk, so i start talking.

Perhaps you played only against the wrong european ...

In one game i played against a person, he write hi, i too, i write more and he write "no speaking english" i write ok, at the ends good bye and he cya ...

For me he are to many shortforms and too many to nice coaches.

Good luck, gl - what he really means is ... you know
Have fun - what he really means is ... start crying
gratz - what he really means: damn diecing

i dont need this not really ... that is all only polite shit

What i like, ... yesterday first game with norse against dark elves my ulfwerener was killed ... ouch ... seeing the sorry and knowing he mean whta he write a normal cas that is what makes him happy, kill one of my expensived players in a team that has his first match thats not ... talking with him that i dont delete the team and seeing him writing they will recovering ... yes this is a true conversation.

So you are asking why you are rated so bad, i ask you what do you want only the polite the absolutely necassary? Click copy and paste the first of this text under euch of your games and you have your polite ... but if you want a real conversation accept the language barrier, yes most european learned english in school, but that looks like my english .. haha

I must say i am a chess player in tournaments i am playing up to 4 hours without saying one word, in normal games i say only sometimes in the right moment "Schach" (german for chess) cause this is writen in the rules ...
My first games i played here in fumbbl, it is my turn and i am thinking about what to do, calculate the risks, plan something and .... *ping* *ping* the other coach is writing me, normally i answer in his turn cause i need time to read, translate and much more time to answer.

as an example for this text i had needed 4 days :D no fun, but 15minutes ... in german i write with ten fingers in 1 minute ... hope you understand what i mean ... perhaps we play a game and i will give you more of my bad english :D

Cheers from germany

Posted by DeZigma on 2013-07-03 15:12:02

No my friend.

We don't talk, cause the NSA. Big Brother is watching you.
That's it, my friend, that's it!

Posted by Amarock on 2013-07-03 15:24:48

Uhhh i write so many and i see meanwhile i change my meaning.

Have fun, good luck = respect

But they are most times lies, so i need an other beginning an true start of conversation.

Hello
Hope no player will die or lose points and that we both earn a lot of spp and money and that I win :D

(Think this is better, because it is true)

After i make a touchdown:

I think luck is on my side :D
YES! This is how i like it
Yes ... i really like this game

After opponent makes a touchdown:

Hmm, very good moves, well done
Oh i see, luck is on your side
OOOOOhhhhhhhhh no ... ok, respect

After hurting an opponents player:

Sorry

After losing one of my own players or lose points on him:

Ouch
Aaaaaaaaaaargh, that makes me so angry that i have destroyed my mouse, need a short break to take a new one ... haha
What are you doing? Stop it!!!!

After a bad losing game:

Hope i will see you never again.

........ waiting for his answer:

No i am joking you, i hope i will never lose again like this, next time we play.

After a good game for both:

That was a lot of fun, see ya, bye

After a winning game:

I think for me that was more funnier as for you, but i hope you will play against me again. Next time perhaps you have more luck, see ya, good bye.



As an answer for shortforms:

hf and gl

why you hate fumbbl and by the hell why you are great laughing, thats not funny dude!

GG

Thats the name of my underwear! what would you say me with this?



:D

Posted by licker on 2013-07-03 15:52:03

You see what I meant about Germans??? :) (kidding, kidding...)

Anyway, I also played competitive chess when I was younger, and sure, you didn't talk during a match unless you needed some issue resolved and usually you asked for a tournament rep to come and hear your question/issue.

But...

Blood Bowl, and certainly FUMBBL is not competitive tournament chess. The same rules of etiquette do now, and should not in my opinion, apply.

In particular keggie was talking about the open divisions. You know, games which really don't matter at all for anything. In a tournament (and in some league matches, though leagues are a different animal anyway) do what you need to do to maximize your chances to win, the other guy should be doing the same (including ultrafast time outs).

In a regular R or B game? Come on, if you take it that seriously then my guess is that you are just not a fun person in the first place (generic you, not pointing at anyone here).

I think that is a big disconnect for a lot of people. The different mindset people can have towards regular games in the open divisions. And sure, there are sprints and there may be games I would call 'regular' which someone else may find more significant for whatever reason, but ultimately those games still don't really matter that much across the entire site.

It depends on why you want to play them in the first place doesn't it. Some of us may come here to play a one off just to kill time and have some entertainment, not worried about winning or losing, but hoping to have a good time, and not at anyone elses expense. Some of us may have that good time only at someone elses expense.

But even so, the larger point is what kind of a reputation does FUMBBL want to have? Chatty? Intense? Friendly? Sure, there's room for variation across the spectrum, but that last one, that's the one which should be important. Friendly.

Dead silence is not friendly. Dead silence is not respectful. Dead silence is simply rude. Rude is not friendly.

So, if you don't want to chat in english (or whatever language) just have you stock phrase and throw it out, 'Hi, my english is not good'.

Or some such and no one will ride you for it. If someone wants to throw out little 'gratz' or 'wow!' or 'ugg' just as comments for good, bad, unlucky, whatever, ignore it or just reply with 'ty' or 'hehe' or 'lol' or whatever. It may not be a conversation, but it is an awareness that both parties are sharing some kind of experience.

Posted by Retro21 on 2013-07-03 17:01:51

you're coming out with so much nonsense, I have to assume you're on the wind up.

This was my particular favourite:

>Maybe its because the Euros have been waring amongst each other for so long now. They have hidden angst and dont wanna speak to each other.

Posted by Araznaroth on 2013-07-03 17:11:39

As a notebook user, I have to click the chatbox(lil piece i can see) then hit the tab button in order to be able to type. And sometimes, mostly when you typed whole sentences, you press enter only to hear a ping which means chats not active, it doesnt show and sometimes if I have music on I don't even hear it. And if i get this 3 times in a row i usually give up on chat.(its that or kill notebook) Do always try and give fair warning at start of match!;)

Posted by FredAstaire on 2013-07-03 17:22:33

I don't think it's a NA/Euro thing . . . I personally am british, and the opponents I remember being the most chatty have been fellow brits . . . Not because brits are more polite/chatty than anyone else, but rather because I have something in common other than BB.
So it't not that Americans are more polite/chatty, it's just that you chat more *because* your american (if that makes sense)

Also there is the matter of language barriers that everyone else has covered. Really there are a lot of reasons people can be chatty, don't think we can pin it down to how polite countries are (especially because it can come across as slightly offensive)

Posted by Verminardo on 2013-07-03 18:44:43

I am cursious. What is the sample size by which you deducted that Europeans, as a general rule, are impolite and do not talk?

Posted by Badoek on 2013-07-03 19:21:08

That's some great warpstone trolling you got going on keggie!

I usually chat a bit about the game, sometimes more, sometimes less (if I'm playing while my gf is asleep next to me, afraid I'll wake her up with the key rattling). Some games I'm the only one talking, there's never a game where my opponent talks and I don't.

Haven't noticed the difference between Euros and Muricans. Although I do recall some Southern Europeans excusing themselves for not being able to chat much in English. I tried French a few times. Works well if you mix it with Blood Bowl English.

Posted by Badoek on 2013-07-03 19:21:58

also: rated 4 for interesting topic yet lousy conclusion :D

No em0 btw?

Posted by Ludovicious on 2013-07-03 19:23:18

Pretty fast, people get either aggressive about their opponent's luck, their opponent's whiney attitude, their opponents lack of respect, their opponents quietness. Basically pretty aggressive all in all. Not a sound basis for conversation to flourish.

If you raise your voice, you are either emo or troll, all other exceptions you get moderated!

I have earlier been warned for foul language, and accepted the warning. The thing is we grow a certain way of behavior here as well. Some day we get passed it and we see it as wrong.

And then, we have developed somewhere else.

Hope we learn to speak well to each other again soon :)

Posted by ahalfling on 2013-07-04 00:27:50

Aw, this isn't true. I've lived in North America all my life, and I'm no fun at all.

Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-05 20:16:42

@ Retro21
made a joke with that line. My blog had been removed from the active blog list soon after starting it. I didn't think anyone would read that. It has been reintroduce for some reason.

What I am saying is that Euros (Not The British) tend to not say the simple courteous things in a game. I don't care about having full on conversations, though I tend to yabber on, but I do expect people to treat me the way I treat them. I don't even get mad when people vent at me for mah lucky dice. I agree with them. "Ya I was lucky there." I have even gone and opened a translator or two to be polite.
[b]Did you know?[/b]
That Congratulations in Italian is congratulazione

Anyways, I think the point was made and maybe people will be more courteous in the future. Say it your own language. Spread the word.