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2013-08-03 20:27:22
15 votes, rating 3.5
15 votes, rating 3.5
Dungeon Crawlers
So, whilst incapacitated to the point that I could barely sit and holding any non-limp posture for any time was agony, I tried out a few crawlers to pass the time in ways that were more flexible than a 1 hour game of BB.
I've played Tales of Maj’Eyal (ToME) 4 (ToME4) a fair bit. It looks pretty but the grinding is a total grind. The community seems to think that the game has no grinding at all, but you have to kill 1000s of enemies to get to a respectable level in the game (or were they trying to grind down my critique?) and the issue is that the 16 different damage types makes it incredibly unpredictable. Oh how great it is to see 3 hours evaporated by what looks like fairly easy creatures turning out to deal atrocious amounts of damage because you are vulnerable to darkness etc.
It has other flaws (often you have to fight all the enemies of a level in one group, which is nearly impossible if half of them use magic) but in the past I found it repetitive and soon again felt the same.
So I moved on to Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup.
Not quite so pretty, but you can play it without installing (click 'Play Webtiles') and it is largely keyboard driven (handy on a laptop/touchpad) with the bonus of it using vim-like movement (if you know vim, that is).
I'd say it is tougher than TE4 in that surviving the early levels can sometimes be hit and miss. Not quite as tough as IVAN though.
Even though I'm still dying a lot, it feels far less random and each game run feels more unique than with TE4. There's still a lot of depth (all the races, how you develop your skills, the various gods) but it isn't overwhelming like the depth in TE4 felt for me.
Do you guys play roguelikes? Especially graphical ones (much prefer a bit of pixel art to running around after @s - I have no imagination, I guess).
PS. For the winners that read the entire post, I present to you a gift. DoomRL! It is bad ass.
I've played Tales of Maj’Eyal (ToME) 4 (ToME4) a fair bit. It looks pretty but the grinding is a total grind. The community seems to think that the game has no grinding at all, but you have to kill 1000s of enemies to get to a respectable level in the game (or were they trying to grind down my critique?) and the issue is that the 16 different damage types makes it incredibly unpredictable. Oh how great it is to see 3 hours evaporated by what looks like fairly easy creatures turning out to deal atrocious amounts of damage because you are vulnerable to darkness etc.
It has other flaws (often you have to fight all the enemies of a level in one group, which is nearly impossible if half of them use magic) but in the past I found it repetitive and soon again felt the same.
So I moved on to Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup.
Not quite so pretty, but you can play it without installing (click 'Play Webtiles') and it is largely keyboard driven (handy on a laptop/touchpad) with the bonus of it using vim-like movement (if you know vim, that is).
I'd say it is tougher than TE4 in that surviving the early levels can sometimes be hit and miss. Not quite as tough as IVAN though.
Even though I'm still dying a lot, it feels far less random and each game run feels more unique than with TE4. There's still a lot of depth (all the races, how you develop your skills, the various gods) but it isn't overwhelming like the depth in TE4 felt for me.
Do you guys play roguelikes? Especially graphical ones (much prefer a bit of pixel art to running around after @s - I have no imagination, I guess).
PS. For the winners that read the entire post, I present to you a gift. DoomRL! It is bad ass.
Comments
Posted by birdbanger on 2013-08-03 21:11:56
I tried those some time ago.
I recommend you to try Desktop Dungeons. Simple, tactical and it has fumbbl style graphics :)
I recommend you to try Desktop Dungeons. Simple, tactical and it has fumbbl style graphics :)
Posted by johnalex on 2013-08-03 22:05:36
I love roguelikes, all kinds of them. I read about them all of the time. Try some roguelikelikes or expand into ASCII... if you go ASCII, try Sil!
Posted by Lorebass on 2013-08-03 22:12:20
Been playing stone soup myself for a few years on and off. great game IMO and with the tiles set wayyyy more user friendly. but yes you die alot there too. For example. if you see Edmund and your not a hits everything berserker... run away.
Posted by johnalex on 2013-08-03 22:12:52
Nethack has tiles too, btw!
Posted by licker on 2013-08-03 22:31:14
ToME is awesome. It is maybe the most awesome rougelike ever.
However, it is not for lazy people who don't want to take the time and fully understand the mechanics and the design. That's not to call you lazy there Chainsaw, of course, not everyone is going to like everything, but if you are looking for more of a casual rougelike then ToME is probably not for you.
Personally my favorite is NPP-Angband, but almost any Angband variant (ToME is really just an Angband variant, though so expanded upon that it's taken off in new directions) will do for me.
Never liked Net-Hack though or any of it's descendants of which I think Stone Soup is one?
However, it is not for lazy people who don't want to take the time and fully understand the mechanics and the design. That's not to call you lazy there Chainsaw, of course, not everyone is going to like everything, but if you are looking for more of a casual rougelike then ToME is probably not for you.
Personally my favorite is NPP-Angband, but almost any Angband variant (ToME is really just an Angband variant, though so expanded upon that it's taken off in new directions) will do for me.
Never liked Net-Hack though or any of it's descendants of which I think Stone Soup is one?
Posted by SpacemanJames on 2013-08-03 22:51:30
Thanks for this, worth trying a few of these.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2013-08-03 23:04:08
@birdbanger: played it; yes, very good.
However I'm a bit strange. I like my games open source. (DoomRL is not though.)
@licker: yes, there is that, but the level of understanding probably doesn't make too much difference to the initial grind.
There are other aspects; far too many imbued or magically enhanced items in the game. There's nothing special about anything really because they are so numerous. You just end up collecting them and dragging them back to sell.
However I'm a bit strange. I like my games open source. (DoomRL is not though.)
@licker: yes, there is that, but the level of understanding probably doesn't make too much difference to the initial grind.
There are other aspects; far too many imbued or magically enhanced items in the game. There's nothing special about anything really because they are so numerous. You just end up collecting them and dragging them back to sell.
Posted by licker on 2013-08-04 02:27:22
Well, ToME isn't grindy if you know the shortcuts to power level and then just do the dungeons.
You can make it grindy if that's what you want to do, but it doesn't have to play that way. In fact, you should be able to get lvl 20ish without ever entering a dungeon in under 30m if that's what you want to do.
As to the amount of loot, well, Angband like roguelikes have a TON of loot. Fortunately the autosquelch helps a lot. Actually i think they call it something else in ToME, automizer i think, if you script one up it takes care of a lot of the loot issues. However, there are very special items out there, it's just a matter of setting up the automizer so that you don't even see a lot of the chaff.
As I said, ToME is very advanced, once you take the time to learn the shortcuts/aides then it plays much more quickly, but stepping in to it without knowing these things does make it rather overwhelming.
That said, I'm not sure I've played ToME4, so things may be different, but ToME2 was/is excellent none the less.
You can make it grindy if that's what you want to do, but it doesn't have to play that way. In fact, you should be able to get lvl 20ish without ever entering a dungeon in under 30m if that's what you want to do.
As to the amount of loot, well, Angband like roguelikes have a TON of loot. Fortunately the autosquelch helps a lot. Actually i think they call it something else in ToME, automizer i think, if you script one up it takes care of a lot of the loot issues. However, there are very special items out there, it's just a matter of setting up the automizer so that you don't even see a lot of the chaff.
As I said, ToME is very advanced, once you take the time to learn the shortcuts/aides then it plays much more quickly, but stepping in to it without knowing these things does make it rather overwhelming.
That said, I'm not sure I've played ToME4, so things may be different, but ToME2 was/is excellent none the less.
Posted by The_Provocateur on 2013-08-04 04:55:29
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is great. Xom is my Nuffle away from Nuffle.
Posted by Narlgoth on 2013-08-04 13:14:31
Rated 5, but just because of Birdbanger's reference to Desktop Dungeons which I've spent 4 hours playing since yesterday! Good game.
Posted by Woodstock on 2013-08-04 16:41:05
check out cardhunter.com; it is a fun DD-like dungeon crawler with loot and cards, you can get a beta key within a few days.
Posted by Rafe on 2013-08-05 01:00:34
Stone soup (or DCSS) is nothing to do with nethack. It is not remotely spoiler driven the way that nethack is - by that I mean, sure, you'll probably die to Mennas the first time you come across him in DCSS. But it's not because you need some mystical item combo or a specific way to beat him, he's just a badass who you didn't give enough respect to.
Pro tip for DCSS - if you haven't seen something before, run away.
I actually managed to ascend in crawl a few times too now, damn I love that game.
Xom finds this hilarious.
Pro tip for DCSS - if you haven't seen something before, run away.
I actually managed to ascend in crawl a few times too now, damn I love that game.
Xom finds this hilarious.
Posted by Ziggyny on 2013-08-05 05:30:34
Not quite the same thing, but I'm really liking Rogue Legacy.